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[COVID-19] General Discussion

TRF_Olyy said:
Not being snobby, just literally not being offered it
First was Pfizer so presumably second will be as well
Click to expand...

Not aimed at you Oly. If your first one was Pfizer than you will have to have Pfizer as second.

Just sticking up generally for Oxford AZ with all the bad press. Having had both jabs myself and been fine. But then I didn't have a choice of which vaccine at the time.
 
Was the argument against AZ for under 30s that with low case numbers the trade off with the clotting risk wasn't worth it, or that the risk to life if you caught Covid was low regardless? If the former, now cases are rising rapidly shouldn't that have changed?
 
g6mcg said:
Was the argument against AZ for under 30s that with low case numbers the trade off with the clotting risk wasn't worth it, or that the risk to life if you caught Covid was low regardless? If the former, now cases are rising rapidly shouldn't that have changed?
Click to expand...
Yes, and yes, and even then it was only "not worth it, given alternatives" - posted the link a page or two back: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/976877/CovidStats_07-04-21-final.pdf
We're somewhere between pages 3&4, but the case rate is skewed heavily to the you get, who are much closer to page 4 for case rate.
 
question, is the risk of clotting still less than the contraceptive pill? or has that comparison been revised.

In Aus we have officially ditched AZ, orders cancelled and we'll work through the stock we have and that's it, official stance was those under 60 SHOULDN'T get it, just seems crazy when we've struggled for supply to be picky when the risk actually seems very low compared to other very common drugs
 
As far as I'm aware, the clotting risk is an order of magnitude lower. Medically, that was never the rationale though, it was the specific sort of clotting which was increased, and increased significantly, but from such a low number it was never worth bothering about.

The reasons it became a thing are:
Medically - It's a tiny risk, but becomes significant when multiplied by billions as we try to vaccinate the entire world. Importantly, there's also an effective alternative with even lower risk.
Politically - Because AstraZeneca cocked up heir contracts, so they became convenient punching bag and distraction, then things got out of hand and it was too late.
Optically - With so much anti-vaxx sentiment, it had to be seen to be whiter than white - despite the claims, never before has a vaccine (or probably any medication) been subjected to so much scrutiny.
Media - The press have always loved a good medical scare story, and have a long and "glorious" history of making mountains it of every medical mole-hill they can find.
Educationally - this is the 21st century, there's no room for nuance in public discourse (this isn't really a matter of education, but requires education to combat in the information age). And yes, I very much appreciate the irony of presenting this argument whilst providing no nuance...
Financially - AZ is a small pharmaceutical company, charging more-or-less cost price for the vaccine; Pfizer is a big pharmaceutical company with a huge lobbying arm and is making insane profits on the back of the vaccine - see also stories that we'll need annual vaccines, and conspiracy theories about right wing politicians preferring that to actually attempting to eradicate the virus.
 
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So to sum up my understanding of this Government's strategy will be from 19 July change to herd immunity again after they tried it March 2020. This time with around 50% double jabbed (under the 70% or possibly as high as 85% needed) and relying on those not yet not, more likely to catching and not being hospitalised because those under 30 will less likely be. They are happy enough for it spread, which it already is again.

No account of many who will suffer from Long Covid after catching it.

We are the Petri dish for the world to see if this will work.


www.theguardian.com

Data predicts 2m UK summer Covid cases with 10m isolating

Guardian analysis prompts health warnings as Javid says England entering ‘uncharted territory’
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
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The_Blindside said:
So to sum up my understanding of this Government's strategy will be from 19 July change to herd immunity again after they tried it March 2020. This time with around 50% double jabbed (under the 70% or possibly as high as 85% needed) and relying on those not yet not, more likely to catching and not being hospitalised because those under 30 will less likely be. They are happy enough for it spread, which it already is again.

No account of many who will suffer from Long Covid after catching it.

We are the Petri dish for the world to see if this will work.


www.theguardian.com

Data predicts 2m UK summer Covid cases with 10m isolating

Guardian analysis prompts health warnings as Javid says England entering ‘uncharted territory’
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...
Yay because it worked so well last time they experimented on the British population. So they are basically assuming that vaccines will continue to be effective and that no new variants will pop up, ignoring the fact that if there is a successful mutation it is likely to be one that resists the vaccine in some way. Go Tories!
 
But FREEDOM DAY


I can't wait to stop wearing masks that have changed a grand total of **** all in my life. Funny how it's the ones calling the younger gens snowflakes who can't handle something like a mask.

Look we all know what will happen.
Summer restrictions lifted
Fall warning that restrictions might be back in place
Winter restrictions put back in place
Spring restrictions loosen up
Summer lifted
Winter back in place
Repeat.
 
A friend who lives in London and has been double jabbed says it's ripping through her son's school. She's been ill for the last two days and thinks she has it. With everything opening up I have a feeling many of us are going to get the Delta variant. Maybe this is the Tories idea of 'learning to live with COVID'.

The Tories have become obsessed with 'freedom day' just like they were obsessed with the country being able to celebrate Christmas -purely political. Why not just insist on mask wearing for a couple more months until all adults have been double jabbed. Everyone I know thinks it's not that much of a hardship. Madness.
 
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The Oggmonster said:
A friend who lives in London and has been double jabbed says it's ripping through her son's school. She's been ill for the last two days and thinks she has it. With everything opening up I have a feeling many of us are going to get the Delta variant. Maybe this is the Tories idea of 'learning to live with COVID'.

The Tories have become obsessed with 'freedom day' just like they were obsessed with the country being able to celebrate Christmas -purely political. Why not just insist on mask wearing for a couple more months until all adults have been double jabbed. Everyone I know thinks it's not that much of a hardship. Madness.
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Yep.
Open up clubs, theatres, concerts etc? fair enough - but why 2 weeks BEFORE the end of term for the age groups most affected in the current wave? Why not open up BUT require double vaccines / 2 negative LFTs for indoor gatherings of more than 100 (or any other number pluced out of someone's backside?
Remove mask and social distancing that make pretty much no difference to pretty much anybody? Insanity
 

UKHSA data dashboard

Overall summary of the respiratory viruses in circulation within the UK
coronavirus.data.gov.uk coronavirus.data.gov.uk

400 plus hospital cases per day as at 30 June. That was last week's figures. So climbing from 200 at beginning of June?. Short of the 1,200 cases in January. So where will we be on 31 July after "freedom day"?
 
I got my Johnson and Johnson vaccine yesterday in the morning :) it wasn't scary at all,all the procedure took maybe 10 min : fulfilled a vaccination form, got my jab, waited for 5 min and my Covid "passport" was already in the system.
I read a bit how to prepare for the vaccination,so: I did a CBC (complete blood count) before the vaccination (and would recommend to do it for those who's going to get a vaccine, just to be sure that you don't have contraindications for any vaccination) and I was drinking a lot of water after my jab (around 4l). Didn't have any side effects during the day, I was working from home and even forgot that I got a jab in the morning :D but I had a bit higher temperature in the night,took Paracetamol and it was ok.
Vaccination is going VERY well in Poland by the way, big queues for all the types of vaccines, great statistics etc
 
Yulia said:
I got my Johnson and Johnson vaccine yesterday in the morning :) it wasn't scary at all,all the procedure took maybe 10 min : fulfilled a vaccination form, got my jab, waited for 5 min and my Covid "passport" was already in the system.
I read a bit how to prepare for the vaccination,so: I did a CBC (complete blood count) before the vaccination (and would recommend to do it for those who's going to get a vaccine, just to be sure that you don't have contraindications for any vaccination) and I was drinking a lot of water after my jab (around 4l). Didn't have any side effects during the day, I was working from home and even forgot that I got a jab in the morning :D but I had a bit higher temperature in the night,took Paracetamol and it was ok.
Vaccination is going VERY well in Poland by the way, big queues for all the types of vaccines, great statistics etc
Click to expand...
That's good news. Many of the Eastern Europeans I work with are very sceptical about covid/vaccines etc so it's nice to see the general populations taking it seriously
 
Which Tyler said:
Click to expand...

Without trying to push too hard don't we do that with with all illnesses especially viral ones. For instance we accept the risk of Influenza within society we do things to mitigate it but we got to a point where in terms of general populace it has an acceptable mortality.

Now I don't think we are close to that with COVID especially in terms of where we'll be in fully opening up. But we are going to have find that point.

What the government is trying to enforce is a unacceptable level.
 
Went into the office last week for one day and the partner took 5 of us in the department for lunch.

The conversation came round to bringing people back in on 19 July. Our office has around 90 people working including a another firm whom we share the office space with. The partner basically said it was time we live with Covid, and the benefits of bringing people back outweighed the risk - repeating the Govt line. This was despite a manager in the department was currently at home sick with Covid despite having had his 2 jabs.

I was sat next to two of my colleagues one had not been jabbed and the other only received his first 2 weeks ago. Both in their early to mid 20s.

Anyway, he emphasised that they have ramped up the fresh air in the office and sent kits to people to test themselves twice weekly; office cleaned including the vents. But this misses the point not all people returning will have been double jabbed as a significant portion are under 30 or delayed getting their first jab if over.

Still, the gist of it that my work have not taken into account illness from Covid is going to rocket from 19 July - if you get sick you get sick. And no account is taken of Long Covid either and peeps catching on public transport; traveling on the tube is still a worry for me. More that they want staff back in to keep an eye on them and that they are working.

Not sure how other workplaces are gearing up for returning on 19 July? Same kind of mentality? No policy of only bringing back double jabbed people back first and phase to return those when they have plus 2 weeks?

Only good thing is that I only have to be in the office 3 days a week, as they are implementing hybrid working.
 

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