British & Irish Lions Back Row

[dullonien]

Tipuric has also shown that he's an excellent lineout option at the tail. Tipuric has been in excellent form for the Ospreys for pretty much 2+ years (since he took over from Hollah), and up until now the only issue was his lack of international game time, and whether he could transfer that regional form on to the international stage. Well, he's getting that game time now, and it likely to continue at 7 for Wales for the remainder of the 6 nations.

He's excellent on the ground, providing a constant stream of turnovers for the Ospreys. Whilst he's maybe not quite as strong as Warburton and a few others over the ball, he makes up for it with his pace, getting him to the breakdown a split second before others and getting his hands on the ball. An on-form Warburton is better in this aspect of the game, but Warburton isn't on-form, at least not in that aspect of the game.

What Tipuric offers above any other candidate, is his running game, and link play. He's one of the best running back-rowers I've seen, capable of sidesteps, clever little kicks, lovely offloads. He's developing into a complete all-round 7, and as TPenn points out, that will be highlighted on the firm pitches in Austrailia. He also puts in his fair share of tackles, as seen by being joint top tackler for Wales against France.

Put a workhorse alongside him at 6, such as Lydiate, Ferris, O'Brien or my current favourite Robshaw, and a ball carrying 8 the other side, and that is recipe for a well balanced, exceptional back-row.

Imo, it's the 8 that is up for grabs, because I don't see an outstanding option atm that would fill that role. Heaslip is a great all round player, good in the tight, good at the breakdown, and a decent ball carrier, but his ball carrying isn't always a highlight of his game. Faletau's ball carrying is impressive, as is his work-rate at the breakdown and tackling, but his hands and vision can let him down. Morgan is the strongest ball carrier, but he's injured now (not sure for how long) and there are question marks over his work-rate in other areas. O'Brien would be a good fit (especially the O'Brien of '09), but he doesn't play at 8 for province or country, and I'm not a fan of playing players out of position, when there are already other very good options available. Beattie could be a dark-horse, but must show consistency throughout the 6 nations.

 

[Peat]

If Beattie keeps playing he is he'd be my option, or at least in the squad. Think O'Brien played 8 for Leinster not that long ago, one of his comeback games, always an option that's interested me - particularly as Heaslip currently is something of a shadow of himself and really should not be in contention.

As things stand, those two in the squad, with one of Morgan and Faletau getting on the plane as well. Probably Faletau if Morgan doesn't recover soon, but elsewise, to me that's a horses for courses choice. Faletau a better work rate - Morgan more vision. I suspect Faletau would appeal to Gatland more.

 

[Big Ewis]

Hey I got a noob question about the Lions, but would really love to know the answer (and is willing to go through myriads of sarcastic replies before getting the actual answer, yes sir !):
say, is it a rule that during selection, a coach MUST select AT LEAST one guy from each 4 home nation ?
Has it ever happened that a nation would be left out entirely one year ? Surely the answer to that one is no; surely they'd at least take one or two guys who are fine from a nation just to say they'd done so, even though there was better in the other 3 at those respective positions...

But there's a potentially funny answer to that, so I was just curious...!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Hey I got a noob question about the Lions, but would really love to know the answer (and is willing to go through myriads of sarcastic replies before getting the actual answer, yes sir !):
say, is it a rule that during selection, a coach MUST select AT LEAST one guy from each 4 home nation ?
Has it ever happened that a nation would be left out entirely one year ? Surely the answer to that one is no; surely they'd at least take one or two guys who are fine from a nation just to say they'd done so, even though there was better in the other 3 at those respective positions...

But there's a potentially funny answer to that, so I was just curious...!

The answer to your question is that when you say 'myriad' you don't need to follow it with 'of'... just saying

 

[Peat]

Hey I got a noob question about the Lions, but would really love to know the answer (and is willing to go through myriads of sarcastic replies before getting the actual answer, yes sir !):
say, is it a rule that during selection, a coach MUST select AT LEAST one guy from each 4 home nation ?
Has it ever happened that a nation would be left out entirely one year ? Surely the answer to that one is no; surely they'd at least take one or two guys who are fine from a nation just to say they'd done so, even though there was better in the other 3 at those respective positions...

But there's a potentially funny answer to that, so I was just curious...!

There is no actual rule that I'm aware of, but equally I'm not aware of any nation ever being unrepresented.

 

[Draggs]

Robshaw, Tipuric, Morgan would also be decent.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

There is no actual rule that I'm aware of, but equally I'm not aware of any nation ever being unrepresented.

I heard one tour like 20 years ago didn't include any Scottish.
Oh and Peat, what would your team be? You've always got something insightful to say .

--

The only thing that concerns me about Robshaw is that he isn't really suited to a particular position. I think he's a fantastic player, should definitely be in the 23, however there's better 7's than him, and better 6's (and I'm sure he hasn't played 8 before).
IMO Tupuric, as a 7, is better than Robshaw. O'Brien and Ferris (who might play at least 1 6N game as he's back next week) are both better 6's than Robshaw. Im not necessarily saying they're better players than Robshaw, but in that position I think they are.


I'd like someone to tell me if I'm being biased, being an Ulsterman, but I just feel if there's a chance of Ferris playing he'd be straight on that starting team (provided he gets ' decent game time, which he should) He puts in huge hits, his ball carrying is unmatched with any other 6, he is fantastic at rucking / clearing out and when a player makes those big hits - it just lifts everyone around them. He's just such a talisman, to take the words out of various commentators mouths.

I like Tom Wood, infact I like most of these 'new' English players, they're so enthusiastic - but so inexperienced. Wood has what, 8 caps? To point out the obvious, playing for England in the 6N at home is a completely different ball game to going to Australia away, and representing 4 nations. I guess we just wouldn't be able to tell if they could cope with the pressure.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Robshaw's actually played an amount of 8 for Quins in the past - I wouldn't play him there internationally (except mid-game if there were injuries)/for the Lions though, mind.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Robshaw's actually played an amount of 8 for Quins in the past - I wouldn't play him there internationally (except mid-game if there were injuries)/for the Lions though, mind.

Ah ok didn't know that

 

[Big Ewis]

The answer to your question is that when you say 'myriad' you don't need to follow it with 'of'... just saying

actually you can say both...didn't know about yours, but it's fine to say "a myriad of"...always used it that way.
http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/myriad.html

There is no actual rule that I'm aware of, but equally I'm not aware of any nation ever being unrepresented.

:lol:
k thanks...can you imagine how HILARIOUS it would be if like...well I'm not going to name any country in particular; this forum's wayyyyyy too stuck up and would draw a million conclusions from my one joke !; but imagine if a nation was just completely left out, or if to be politically correct they kept like one guy from that nation and he sssssuuuucked...like imagine the atmosphere in the locker rooms and shyt....

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

k thanks...can you imagine how HILARIOUS it would be if like...well I'm not going to name any country in particular; this forum's wayyyyyy too stuck up and would draw a million conclusions from my one joke !; but imagine if a nation was just completely left out, or if to be politically correct they kept like one guy from that nation and he sssssuuuucked...like imagine the atmosphere in the locker rooms and shyt....

wat

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Right now i'd have
6. Wood - best 6 in the home nations in my opinion, he is everywhere, tackles, rucks such a good player (he does play 7 for the saints though?)
7. Robshaw - Great leader and a hell of a player
8. R Jones - A proven leader and seems to be in good form for club and country

Obviously this will change then someone gets injured or when form changes. I don't think the following players are actually playing that well but then again that cold also change

Lydiate - Injured
SOB - Not the full package, good a a few things but not all
Warbaton - No form
Morgan - limited player
Haskell - More penatlies for wasps than...well everyone!
Faletau - Average player not on great form
Heaslip - Jones just seemed so much more sucure, i'm sure this will change
Tutpric - average player not proven
Denton - see how he improves
Beattie - if he caries on he could claim the 8 shirt?
Brown - i'd take him on tour

I'm sure i've missed a few and i don't think my opinion is right all the time, i like hearing why some people rate players for things i might miss....just as long as we don't take Haskell on tour.

 

[Peat]

I heard one tour like 20 years ago didn't include any Scottish.
Oh and Peat, what would your team be? You've always got something insightful to say .

--

The only thing that concerns me about Robshaw is that he isn't really suited to a particular position. I think he's a fantastic player, should definitely be in the 23, however there's better 7's than him, and better 6's (and I'm sure he hasn't played 8 before).
IMO Tupuric, as a 7, is better than Robshaw. O'Brien and Ferris (who might play at least 1 6N game as he's back next week) are both better 6's than Robshaw. Im not necessarily saying they're better players than Robshaw, but in that position I think they are.


I'd like someone to tell me if I'm being biased, being an Ulsterman, but I just feel if there's a chance of Ferris playing he'd be straight on that starting team (provided he gets ' decent game time, which he should) He puts in huge hits, his ball carrying is unmatched with any other 6, he is fantastic at rucking / clearing out and when a player makes those big hits - it just lifts everyone around them. He's just such a talisman, to take the words out of various commentators mouths.

I like Tom Wood, infact I like most of these 'new' English players, they're so enthusiastic - but so inexperienced. Wood has what, 8 caps? To point out the obvious, playing for England in the 6N at home is a completely different ball game to going to Australia away, and representing 4 nations. I guess we just wouldn't be able to tell if they could cope with the pressure.

So far I've been trying to avoid picking a team; this close, it seems rather futile. There's three 6N games to go, and opinions will swing a lot on those, then some HEC knock-out games, then the actual tour itself; obviously the coaches will have some ideas, but teams will always be selected on when unfolds there. It's more fun as wild speculation years out! Might try putting up a team/squad in the other thread in a bit though.

As for Robshaw - it all comes down to what you want from your players, although I'd agree he fits the stereotype of a mountainous 6 no better than he does the free-running groundhog 7. Plenty of players don't, Dusautoir being an incredibly good example. Robshaw could fit easily into a balanced back row at 6 or 7 - but I wouldn't be surprised if, as you say, he gets ousted by more specialised players.

I don't think you're being biased about Ferris, but then I might well be biased as well. No other 6 this side of the equator matches his all round athleticism or ability to produce game changing moments. Unfortunately, very few of them have his injury record either.

And Wood's got 9 caps - but been around since 2011. One of the weirder ones that. Right now he looks a good outside bet for the Lions bench.

edit:

Right now i'd have
6. Wood - best 6 in the home nations in my opinion, he is everywhere, tackles, rucks such a good player (he does play 7 for the saints though?)
7. Robshaw - Great leader and a hell of a player
8. R Jones - A proven leader and seems to be in good form for club and country

Obviously this will change then someone gets injured or when form changes. I don't think the following players are actually playing that well but then again that cold also change

Lydiate - Injured
SOB - Not the full package, good a a few things but not all
Warbaton - No form
Morgan - limited player
Haskell - More penatlies for wasps than...well everyone!
Faletau - Average player not on great form
Heaslip - Jones just seemed so much more sucure, i'm sure this will change
Tutpric - average player not proven
Denton - see how he improves
Beattie - if he caries on he could claim the 8 shirt?
Brown - i'd take him on tour

I'm sure i've missed a few and i don't think my opinion is right all the time, i like hearing why some people rate players for things i might miss....just as long as we don't take Haskell on tour.

Really can't agree with that... I mean, for one, Jones hasn't played 8 regularly for a while; him, Wood and Robshaw would work hard but provide the punch of a midget.

Tipuric is a hell of a lot better than average, so too is Faletau, and O'Brien and Morgan both offer far more than you give them credit for.

 

[Big Ewis]

wat

where

 

[dullonien]

Right now i'd have
6. Wood - best 6 in the home nations in my opinion, he is everywhere, tackles, rucks such a good player (he does play 7 for the saints though?)
7. Robshaw - Great leader and a hell of a player
8. R Jones - A proven leader and seems to be in good form for club and country

Obviously this will change then someone gets injured or when form changes. I don't think the following players are actually playing that well but then again that cold also change

Lydiate - Injured
SOB - Not the full package, good a a few things but not all
Warbaton - No form
Morgan - limited player
Haskell - More penatlies for wasps than...well everyone!
Faletau - Average player not on great form
Heaslip - Jones just seemed so much more sucure, i'm sure this will change
Tutpric - average player not proven
Denton - see how he improves
Beattie - if he caries on he could claim the 8 shirt?
Brown - i'd take him on tour

I'm sure i've missed a few and i don't think my opinion is right all the time, i like hearing why some people rate players for things i might miss....just as long as we don't take Haskell on tour.

Hmm where to begin...

Wood is a great up and coming player, and I see him as a future star is he continues his upwards curve. But to say he's the best 6 in the NH is a step too far at present. Lydiate and Ferris are better, but current;y both injured so I'll give you that. I think SOB is also currently better, and has shown at different stages that he is a complete player (although maybe hasn't shown that compete game at international level yet). He's a great ball carrier, which everyone tends to fixate about, but his work rate is also top notch as the Wales v Ireland game highlighted. He's also improving all the time in the ruck. He's not the finished article, but is slightly ahead of Wood at the moment.

Jones is no longer an 8. He's lost a yard of pace, and is no longer as explosive in his carrying as he was in '05-'08. What he now offers is exactly what you want from your blindside flanker, a workhorse who's involved in everything, and some genuine leadership. I'd also have him above wood, and possibly SOB for his leadership.

I still maintain that Robshaw is a 6, playing out of position at 7 because of a lack of alternatives (and because of England's policies about picking foreign based players - Armitage). Put him alongside a genuine openside, who's great on the ground, and more importantly a link man, and I think we'll really see the best out of him. England work because they have a number of players in the team who are ok at the tackle area, along with a great fetcher in Dan Cole.

Faletau, average? Any other no 8 making his impact at his age. He was 20 at the RWC, barely 22 now. He's not the finished article, but average is not a word I'd use to describe him.

Lastly, you're use of the word average for Tipuric is so far off the mark it's almost funny, almost... Watch some Ospreys games and see the impact he has on a game. You can pretty much watch any game he's been involved in over the last two years and you'll see a classy performance from him. IMO he's one of the most talented players in the world at the moment. There is not one aspect of the game he struggles with (even captaining the Ospreys on a number of occasions). The only reason he hasn't got more caps is because Warburton emerged slightly before he did, and we all know how good Warbs was up until recently. Couple that with Howley's stubbornness to change things (namely drop Warburton for the in-form Tipuric) and that's the reasons. Tipuric is best in an open, free flowing game where he can use his running, passing and link play to full effect, but last week showed that he's also at home in a close, caged affair, putting in tackles, hitting rucks and taking lineout ball.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I think the back-row will be completely up for grabs going on to the plane, the only problem is the abundance of great 6's and some of them taking up the 7 spot on their sides. Honestly I think Chris Henry is extremely unlucky that Deccie refuses to pick him, he was the form 7 in Europe on HEC form but Deccie would rather move a world class 6 to 7 which has a negative effect on both players chances.

I think they'll bring 7-8 back rows:
Robshaw, O'Brien, Heaslip, Tipuric, Faletau, Ferris, Lydiate and Warburton would be mine with Morgan just missing out or getting on pending on injuries.

Out of this pool of players there is a rediculous amount of combinations:
6. Robshaw 8. O'Brien 7. Tipuric is what I'd have after the first two rounds of the 6n
6. O'Brien 8. Heaslip 7. Robshaw was after round 1
6. Ferris 8. Faletau 7. Tipuric/Warburton(upon finding form) would be an unbelievable backrow, so powerful and can win ball.
6. Ferris 8. Heaslip 7. Robshaw would work too with Robshaw and Heaslip sharing work at the breakdown.

Basically there are an unbelievable amount of combinations that would be incredibly effective and form in Australia will probably decide it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I don't see what you're getting at here!!!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Nothing, just saw it and posted it up as it's relevant.

It's mildly surprising for me as I would've expected SOB to have the better linebreak/carries stats, and Robshaw the better tackle/turnover rate.

 

[big ginger 8]

That's not accurate. SO'B made 23 tackles against Wales alone.