British & Irish Lions Back Row

[j'nuh]

In fairness that's because he didn't do anything apart from drop the ball there in that match. The stats say he made 9 tackles compared to 18 by Robshaw and 24 by Wood which sums up who was doing the hard work for England really.

Like I say, he'd just come back from injury.

But it's true that Croft doesn't pile up the same kind of stats as most flankers. My question is - does that matter? Some teams don't have a front 5 capable of getting through enough tight work, and require their flankers to be more involved. But when you look at the pack selections for the Lions, I don't think that the Lions will be shy of tight grafters and tacklers.

Croft makes his name in the loose though. Not necessarily just with ball in hand. Whereas most flankers are tucked away shadowing the tight game, I notice that Croft will provide rucking support in the backline. A lot of teams lose possession in their backline because of a lack of support. You can even see backs sometimes make breaks and not have the support to keep the ball. Forwards which play in the backline helps in ball retention, carrying and provides a tight option in the next phase of play.

My attitude to Croft is - if you have the front 5 to accommodate having him, then he'll do wonders in supporting your backline and keeping fluency in attack up. But if you're being blown off the park in a tight game, then he's not the right choice. In any case, Croft is unique enough in his playing style to warrant selection for the Lions, but I'm not sure whether he should be involved in the XV.

 

[dullonien]

Regarding Warburton, I've said it on a number of occasions before, but his dip in form was overstated. Yes he became less effective than usual at the breakdown during that time, but his work-rate was still very good. I still feel that he wasn't fully fit during that time after suffering a string of smallish injuries. He probably should have been replaced with the on-form Tipuric, but that's partially down to how great a player Tipuric is.

His return to form was quite evident for Wales. He was magnificent in the final two 6 nations rounds. I watched the S4C documentary on the 6 nations ***le the other week, and Warburton admitted that he went into the Scotland game demanding a man of the match performance from himself, which he produced. Warburton's return to form has also been evident for the Blues of late, where he's been almost single handedly keeping them in matches for as long as one man can, with some great work at the breakdown.

Yes he went through a dip in form, and I maybe wouldn't have selected him as captain either considering it's not been long since he's re-gained that form, but if Gatland is confident that his form is to stay, then I can accept Gatland's decision.

Another thing I really like about Warburton is his belief and ambition. He thoroughly believes that the Lions can go undefeated on this tour, he's not just saying it. I think that belief really rubbed off on the rest of the Welsh squad during the WC, and it could do the same on the rest of the Lions tourists as well.

 

[Draggs]

Regarding Warburton, I've said it on a number of occasions before, but his dip in form was overstated. Yes he became less effective than usual at the breakdown during that time, but his work-rate was still very good. I still feel that he wasn't fully fit during that time after suffering a string of smallish injuries. He probably should have been replaced with the on-form Tipuric, but that's partially down to how great a player Tipuric is.

His return to form was quite evident for Wales. He was magnificent in the final two 6 nations rounds. I watched the S4C documentary on the 6 nations ***le the other week, and Warburton admitted that he went into the Scotland game demanding a man of the match performance from himself, which he produced. Warburton's return to form has also been evident for the Blues of late, where he's been almost single handedly keeping them in matches for as long as one man can, with some great work at the breakdown.

Yes he went through a dip in form, and I maybe wouldn't have selected him as captain either considering it's not been long since he's re-gained that form, but if Gatland is confident that his form is to stay, then I can accept Gatland's decision.

Another thing I really like about Warburton is his belief and ambition. He thoroughly believes that the Lions can go undefeated on this tour, he's not just saying it. I think that belief really rubbed off on the rest of the Welsh squad during the WC, and it could do the same on the rest of the Lions tourists as well.

It was also convenient to pick out Warburton and Priestland for our Autumn performances rather than question the gameplay and staff/players.

 

[Joseph14]

Lets hope the Lions don't return with a loss percentage as high as Wales' in that WC then! :lol:

Wales played 4 good sides in that WC....and lost to 3 of them! ( would have been 2 had captain marvel not single handedly lost them the game against France ) Contrary to popular belief, it wasn't 'that' an impressive World Cup for the Welsh.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Let's not forget which club side Croft plays for.
You really think he would've gotten anywhere at tigers (of all places!) if he was a wing in a flankers shirt?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

 

[foreignerinthevillage]

Gatland has clearly gone for combative free runners - he wants to take the game to the Wallabies. Croft fits the mold perfectly, and is relatively fresh having come back from injury. Warburton, despite indifferent form, Tipuric and O'Brien also fit the bill. One player I cannot get is Lydiate. With limited preparation time, it is essential every player feels fairly treated. And with so many Welsh in there already off the back of a single (albeit fantastic) half of rugby, showing such bias to a player who is only just feeling his way back from injury and does not fit with Gatland's style of open rugby is a dangerous move. I like Lydiate, but to pick him ahead of Robshaw, who is very underrated, seems short-sighted at best and a horrible gamble at worst. Gatland has to be careful. Remember, this is the same Welsh team who lost 8 in a row up to February this year.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I agree Dullonien that with those last 2 games he should have toured, but to captain the Lions? That's something completely different - he's never even been on a tour before, & those two games he played he wasn't captain IIRC, and was just focusing on playing. With such good backrow options, it's annoying now we can't chop and change as much now 1 position is pencilled in.
I just can't help but feel it'll be O'Connell or AW Jones who'll be the real captains, the ones who the players go to for whatever reason.

Gatland has clearly gone for combative free runners - he wants to take the game to the Wallabies. Croft fits the mold perfectly, and is relatively fresh having come back from injury. Warburton, despite indifferent form, Tipuric and O'Brien also fit the bill. One player I cannot get is Lydiate. With limited preparation time, it is essential every player feels fairly treated. And with so many Welsh in there already off the back of a single (albeit fantastic) half of rugby, showing such bias to a player who is only just feeling his way back from injury and does not fit with Gatland's style of open rugby is a dangerous move. I like Lydiate, but to pick him ahead of Robshaw, who is very underrated, seems short-sighted at best and a horrible gamble at worst. Gatland has to be careful. Remember, this is the same Welsh team who lost 8 in a row up to February this year.

I totally agree - I really rate Lydiate, in fact I have him on par with Ferris (and that's saying something for an Ulsterman). But I'm afraid this selection was complete bias; Robshaw, Beattie, POM or Brown deserved it more.

 

[big ginger 8]

Regards backup if a flanker is injured a lot of people on more Irish forums would have you believe after Robshaw it's PO'M wouldn't go for it myself but in fairness he's not to be discounted.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Is POM the knobhead who's always having a dig at someone/trying to start a fight? Can never remember if that's Ryan or POM...
I know I asked the same question in the 6N but can't remember the answer :lol:

I'd like to see Beattie called up if Robshaw ain't fit, and there were injury, but how much flank has he played recently/in general? We've already got Heaslip and teflon mitts at 8 so if he's only really played 8 recently it's not going to help his chances. To be honest I wouldn't be devastated to see Heaslip and/or Faletau drop out to be replaced by Beattie and/or Morgan.

Kelly Brown should be high on the list, too, great player.

 

[big ginger 8]

Is POM the knobhead who's always having a dig at someone/trying to start a fight? Can never remember if that's Ryan or POM...
I know I asked the same question in the 6N but can't remember the answer :lol:

I'd like to see Beattie called up if Robshaw ain't fit, and there were injury, but how much flank has he played recently/in general? We've already got Heaslip and teflon mitts at 8 so if he's only really played 8 recently it's not going to help his chances. To be honest I wouldn't be devastated to see Heaslip and/or Faletau drop out to be replaced by Beattie and/or Morgan.

Kelly Brown should be high on the list, too, great player.

Yeah he's that eejit.

But when he actuslly concentrates on the game he can be quite good.

 

[Peat]

Tbh, I doubt any player particularly cares that Lydiate basically got in because Gatland really knows and trusts him at this point. Lots of Lions players get on the plane because they're the guys the coaches deal with most regularly. If Gatland shows bias on the tour it might be different, but at this stage, its just one of those things. Lydiate offers a big defensive option and is the best donkey work blindside out of the three; if Gatland goes with a 7 and 8 playing loose, and doesn't believe he will have big tight five dominance, then Lydiate would make sense. My main issue is I think that with the named lineout throwers, the need to get a go-to back-row jumper on the pitch might be a big thing. Which at the moment says Croft or, uhm, err... could be saying Croft or Wood though, which I'd prefer, although, lets be honest, Wood's still a fair bit below Croft there.

Right now my favoured back row would probably read Croft 6 Warburton 7 Faletau 8 - using Warburton and Faletau to facilitate Croft playing looser. If I have an inspiring enough tight five to facilitate two back-rows playing looser, then I'd probably take Heaslip or O'Brien instead of Faletau.

edit: p.s. Anyone trying to read great volumes into flankers behind a dominant tight five playing better than flankers behind a beaten tight five on any particular day is wasting their time.

 

[foreignerinthevillage]

I can't agree. Players can't help but look at the other selections and make their own judgements. Lydiate is very fortunate, and on top of the overweight Welsh selection, I can see problems arising. On marginal calls - Cuthbert, Davies, Evans, Lydiate and even Roberts to a certain extent, you could easily make cases for Visser, Scott, Launchbury and Robshaw/Wood to "even out" the selections and create more of a balanced squad.

 

[Peat]

It is part and parcel of top level sport though - the players know it, they accept it, they have a test series to win. Geech did it, Lancaster does it, etc.etc. Yeah, it can become an issue, if players reckon there's no point in them being there when out there, but before they get on the plane? No. It will all come down to how Gatland deals with the squad. What comes before is irrelevant.

 

[psychic duck]

I can't agree. Players can't help but look at the other selections and make their own judgements. Lydiate is very fortunate, and on top of the overweight Welsh selection, I can see problems arising. On marginal calls - Cuthbert, Davies, Evans, Lydiate and even Roberts to a certain extent, you could easily make cases for Visser, Scott, Launchbury and Robshaw/Wood to "even out" the selections and create more of a balanced squad.

Well what exactly did you expect to happen when the Welsh national team coach was appointed? No point moaning about it now, you should have moaned when they were appointing the coach in the first place.

It's always happened. See 2009 for Wasps, 2005 for England circa 2003.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

you should have moaned when they were appointing the coach in the first place.

Think pretty much everyone did.

 

[Draggs]

Think pretty much everyone did.

Yep. Rest of UK didn't want Gatland in, much of Wales didn't either.
That being said, is a Lions coach ever wholly met with welcome? McGeechan excepted, although I'd probably pull on a Wallabies shirt if he was appointed again.