Brief digression: PSA-era France

[FrenchFan]

Basco


He'd be a hero to venture there, but I think the odds of that happening are laughable enough for us to just sit back, imagine it happening and just laugh, and that's that.

.

hem... surely you mean he'd be a Zero to get involved. It wouldn't be a fitting end to his career. Im sure he will want to leave on a high. He hates the guts of FFR everyone knows that. You can put that one safely to bed, ain't going to happen.

 

[Big Ewis]

the clubs are not trying to stop FFR. Stop them from what anyway?! They want get as far as possible and run their own ship.

You think because a Federation has a mandate to do whatever they are going to do it. They might as well have a mandate to pick their nose.

FFR are stuck in a time warp. They are not trying to change anything neither is the League.

Problem is they're so incompetent and disorganised. The rift with the clubs is so big that it will be a status quo until the next WC. Try not to rock the boat too much in case change happen. That's their modus operandi.

yeah, it's their modus enculandi alright...

 

[gaston le gaff]

How would they convince the Top14 clubs to accept becoming the 2nd tier of French "club" rugby? Impossible! They know that once this new competition would be established the sponsors and TV channels would gravitate towards it thus the clubs would lose revenue and prestige. One has to be realistic about these things... the Top14 are richer than the FFR and RFU put together!

hold ye horses young un i said talking about it quietly, nobody has mentioned tv contracts, 2nd tier French rugb being realistic, and impossible!!!! does not exist for Gods sake read the post (quietly talking) and just so you dont make the same mistake again the Clubs are not rich they are bankrolled by very weathly Presidents which is entirely a different proposition, a lot of the clubs now break even or are auto financing themselves but lots like Montpellier do not even own their own stadiums.

 

[FrenchFan]

funny to hear Laporte saying exactly what I've been saying all along about FFR corrupt system, Top 14 to Top 12, PSA etc

Il n'y a qu'une chose qui intéresse les dirigeants, c'est leur poste. [...] je ne le supporte plus. La FFR, c'est tout sauf la démocratie.
(The only thing FFR leaders are interested in is their position [...] I can't stand it any longer. FFR is anything but democratic)

he is spot on

http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/xv-de...ger-les-choses-et-vite_sto4317125/story.shtml

 

[FrenchFan]

and the Toulouse president is also spot on when he states (the blindingly obvious) that the current deal is unfair to Toulouse because we pay a heavier toll than
any other club http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Article/Bouscatel-c-est-un-systeme-boiteux/23049

I have read and heard much about Toulouse mediocre season - with very exceptions none of these mention the obvious fact that we've gone into games this
season missing up to 7 first choice players who were held on national duty. On top of the inevitable list of injuries.

And then you hear the muppets going on about Noves "having lost his touch blahblah, recruitment wrong blahblah", and the same muppets still ask will Noves bail out the national side let's give him the job. They're sad.

as long as Toulouse continue to pay an unfair toll to les bleus, the club will not be as competitive as it can, both in Top 14 & H Cup. If I were president of the club under the present agreement I would not agree to release the French internationals.

The currrent FFR president talks about rugby like Klingons in Star Trek. He is a clown.

I don't care who will succeed PSA. The next president of the federation, provided he is not another muppet on strings, could have far more
bearing on the whole future of the game here.
If Laporte were to get elected as the next president of FFR in 2016, he could bring the culture change that's much needed.

 

[gaston le gaff]

I have nothing against Toulouse or their President and did think that he was right to stand down from his position, but i have followed the TOP 14 for many years and Toulouse and Noves have always bought the best available in France, of course players also have wanted to go to Toulouse for obvious reasons, and until recently they have not worried too much about recruiting to many foreigners.If you recruit the best French players available its also the risk that they could be picked for France, so you are going to have gaping holes around 6 Nations and other test windows.Recently Noves has stated that they could be investing in more foreigners to be able to do like a lot of TOP 14 teams and field competitive sides even during International windows. Personally i think the fees have improved by nearly over a 1,000€ a day so its progress Rome was not built in a day.Toulouse have had one bad season, and also did not see the Toulons of this new rugby coming, but the Top 14 is a level playing field, a couple of season of seasons ago Montpellier had 12/14 players missing when we had all the Argies onboard, but we soon changed that having them only available after the first 10 games and often worse for wear after the 4 Nations. I have always said Noves is one of the best coaches in the Top 14 but he is often seen as a pleureuse, and of course the media are always there when things dont go accordingly to plan as last season, but that happens everywhere.
I would like to see Laporte in charge i have worked with the FFR and the LNR every week and i am not impressed, everything needs to change in Paris before France become a team that could possibly win a WC, Toulouse have been and still are a great French rugby club one bad season does not change that, what you have to also remember that some clubs have plenty of other Internationals and they recieve nothing from the countries which is just as frustrating. Toulouse are not hard done by and are in the same kettle as many other TOP 14 sides who dont get the compensation, 7 choice players becomes over 9000€ a day which is not bad.Of course the biggest problem is that the TOP 14 is becoming more important than the National team, but changes have to be made at coaching and officials levels in the FFR and LNR before any benefits are seen.!!!!!!!!!!!! that my unbias insight into the situation!!!!

 

[Big Ewis]

France are so hilariously far from being a RWC-winning caliber team it's...well, hilarious. So many things aren't nearly where they should be... And gaston "the TOP 14 is becoming more important than the National team", it's BEEN more important for a while already !

EDIT:
Bernard Laporte: "the xv de France gives a negative image for our sport".
:lol:

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

back onto this as i had a talk with some friends off mine about Serge Blanco's time.

so, i laugh at how bad france are doing atm. but hey, it is sad comparing france to now and how they use to be. so, if i was picking a france coach who would i want to see ? i this is a list of who i think are capable off the job.
- Fabien Galthié
- Guy Novès
- Bernard Laporte

well, better than PSA surely. the best possible france team now i would think would look like this.

1.) Thomas Domingo
2.) Christopher Tolofua
3.) Nicolas Mas
4.) Pascal Papé
5.) Yoann Maestri
6.) Yannick Nyanga
7.) Thierry Dusautoir (c)
8.) Louis Picamoles
9.) Morgan Parra
10.) Jules Plisson
11.) Noa Nakaitaci
12.) Wesley Fofana
13.) Florian Fritz
14.) Sofiane Guitoune
15.) Brice Dulin

EDIT: my bench would look like this
16.) Guilhem Guirado
17.) Fabien Barcella
18.) Luc Ducalcon
19.) Sébastien Vahaamahina
20.) Antoine Burban
21.) Maxime Machenaud
22.) Camille Lopez
23.) Maxime Mermoz

 

[Big Ewis]

it's been discussed lots of times prior Scotty, but many guys could coach the xv de France in theory. You can add Fabien Pelous to that list, the guy who just won the GS with the French youngsters.
First thing that catches my attention: Trinh-Duc at 10, no discussion. Maybe Lopez later, but now it's clearly FTD.
A big asterisk needs to be put next to props Domingo and Mas right now and this Top 14 season and possibly November tests will show where they're both at, but they might very well not be the best in France right now.
Also, probably Huget over Nakaitaci on the wing, and definitely Szar or Kayser over Tolofua, even maybe Guirado. Tolofua offers lots but as a hooker he's yet to be polished still.
The third row is a very deep position in France, so I don't think there's a standard 'best third row' when you have guys like Lauret, Lapandry, Burban, Le Roux just to name a few who all offer something different, and not necessarily 'better or worse than', just different.

But that's a pretty nice XV for a foreigner overall though, Scotty. Well done.
Finally, you talk about the Serge Blanco years, and you look at where "France" are at now with PSA and staff. It's just a laugher, a good comedy sketch.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

it's been discussed lots of times prior Scotty, but many guys could coach the xv de France in theory. You can add Fabien Pelous to that list, the guy who just won the GS with the French youngsters.
First thing that catches my attention: Trinh-Duc at 10, no discussion. Maybe Lopez later, but now it's clearly FTD.
A big asterisk needs to be put next to props Domingo and Mas right now and this Top 14 season and possibly November tests will show where they're both at, but they might very well not be the best in France right now.
Also, probably Huget over Nakaitaci on the wing, and definitely Szar or Kayser over Tolofua, even maybe Guirado. Tolofua offers lots but as a hooker he's yet to be polished still.
The third row is a very deep position in France, so I don't think there's a standard 'best third row' when you have guys like Lauret, Lapandry, Burban, Le Roux just to name a few who all offer something different, and not necessarily 'better or worse than', just different.

But that's a pretty nice XV for a foreigner overall though, Scotty. Well done.
Finally, you talk about the Serge Blanco years, and you look at where "France" are at now with PSA and staff. It's just a laugher, a good comedy sketch.

i was only trying to make a different looking team but looks pretty good.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

One 'problem' I see France as having as a tier 1 country coach-wise is language. I can't for the life of me picture France not having a fluently French speaking coach and that limits the options. Look at the 'home unions', NZ, Aus and SA; all very well versed in English. The SA players would understand even if not all be able to perfectly speak English so we can have our pick of tier 1 coaches and we've seen a number of NZ coaches in SA even if not the test side but there we have two very succesful coaches as Enlish speaking South Africans in Kitch Christie (100%) and Nick Mallett with that record 17 consecutive win streak (even if he is not among the top %-wise at 71%).

Not saying French coaches are not up to it but simply that France have a smaller pool to draw from and with things the way they are with the Top 14 seemingly the best of those aren't interested so looking abroad would've been a good option possibly if not for the language barrier.

 

[Big Ewis]

yep, we all know this in France, the language barrier. Of all Tier 1 nations, we'd struggle the most along with Italy and Argentina. Rugby is deeply, deeply rooted in the culture of the Southwest here, so it's not like we can have a foreigner coach come in and start speaking in a foreign language if you see what I mean. The guys are going to feel like, "who the fk is that outsider trying to teach us Rugby, and in English ??...". Italy are more humble towards that as a smaller Rugby nation and have graciously accepted a Frenchman as coach, but even that is a lot closer, and I don't really know Jacques Brunel's level in Italian but I'm guessing it's good enough to get em through, and plus all the good Italian players are in the Top 14, and their captain, Sergio Parisse, speaks fluent French...
But a foreigner coach speaking English in Southwestern France....mmmmmmm......

in a sense, maybe it would be a good thing. Coaches of the xv de France tend to be too soft or too close to the players, or whatever the actual cause may not have enough distance and don't inspire authority or fear into the players. Maybe someone from outside could install that distance, and the guys would feel so weird they'd actually obey. And anyways about the language, perhaps limiting comprehension would work beneficially in the same way: short talk, efficient talk, good talk. Winning Rugby isn't ultra-complex Rugby. It seems PSA does exactly the opposite: loads of talk, little concrete.

Team sports have to be managed differently, for they are inherently different in nature. In basketball, you need specific coach profiles. In Rugby: simple, taciturn, and arguably the common ingredient to all, a bit of distance/authority.

 

[wertas]

Actually, as me being non-native English speaker, it is quite difficult to understand why English speakers are lazy to learn other languages. Learn French and go to coach in France

 

[FrenchFan]

Actually, as me being non-native English speaker, it is quite difficult to understand why English speakers are lazy to learn other languages. Learn French and go to coach in France

English and Afrikaans are fine incl. in ProD2 judging by what I've heard. A smattering of French will do. Ask OGara.

 

[FrenchFan]

Stormer you're correct in saying the pool of top coaches is more limited for us. But that's not just down to the language barrier. Lack of interest is another one.

I don't know why the name of Galthie is circulating that much. This is how the information moves on forums. One name is cast. Everybody follows thru with the same name. It's like a snowball.
Problem with Galthie is he is not liked by the people currently in charge at the Federation. Which rules him out as a dead cert. Unless the said people leave. But at FFR they're in the business of clinging to their job like barnacles. Don't know how long he'll have to wait.

Raphael Ibanez would look more suitable (from FFR point of view, not mine) as he is well liked among the suits unlike Galthie. Ibanez is much less experienced but he can live with the politics. I think these 2 guys have promising coaching career provided they stay with their CLUB.

Look at where Saint Andre is now. Dark side of the moon running out of O2. In the last 3 years he was busy driving the national side into a wall, his ex club has won 2 H Cup and 1 Bouclier. Au revoir Philippe.

Fabien Pelous would be another one. Very popular at FFR. He is a member of the current selection comitee and coach of the U20. So he is well in with the suits Fabien. Zero coaching experience in the real world of Top 14. Would be completely out of his depth if he got the job next year, but they like him, so that makes him a shoe in. He is a toulousain so I like him for that, but he is become part of a system which is more destructive than creative. Would need cut his teeth with a big club (assistant coach at Toulouse would be one for him, we'll have him back, but he has had to endure 10 years of Noves as a player, that changes a man apparently, so I think he may not be back until the old man retires...)

another one is Fabrice Landreau at Grenoble. He needs to stay in his job and win trophies and then he would make a worthy candidate.

Please don't mention the name of Guy Noves again on the subject. He hates FFR. Everybody in Toulouse incl. my butcher and the club bus driver knows that. And they hate his guts back as well. It would not be a fitting end to his career. He will bow out in his own way, not at the behest of some Parisian clique.

My 2 cents on this : I think there will be very few exciting candidates for the job next year.

The potential candidates in Top14 are there but they are short on experience and with the appeal and expansion of the league, clubs have more to offer. I think one of FFR problem in years to come is they won't be able to match what the top clubs can offer to a coach in terms of salary, career development etc. Clubs win that one as well.
Will they look abroad? Their DNA says No. But if they're stuck for top candidates as I believe they will be, they might. Good luck and sincere commiseration to the hapless foreign git that will walk into that job...

One last point, you would need a SEA CHANGE in the setup around the national coach position, backoom staff etc to bring the REVOLUTION that is needed. Until Camou goes, a new president is elected (2016), and a long list of useless, blood sucking fukkers retire (incl. the imovable uselessness of DTN Jean Claude Skrela, one of the biggest waste of space at FFR, 10 YEARS in same job peddling the same crap about the game).

If Laporte is president in 2016, he could shock the whole system and then yes that could open the way to Galthie, provided he is interested. A lot of the national coach position will depend on the election of the FFR president. It's not very exciting, I know.

Until then, it's UP for the clubs and DOWN all the waayyy for les Bleus.

 

[Big Ewis]

well it's not just this forum man, come on now, all of France is thinking about it. Fabien Galthié has been sort of a trendy name this past whole year, we've even seen him on talk shows, or at least the one I saw him in, poor fellow, with that annoying dikkhead Stéphane Bern, ANYWAYS. Not that it's likely to actually happen, but lots of French fans are mentioning his name these days and have all year long.

 

[welshglory]

Here are some foreign coaches that can speak french from my knowledge:

Joe Schmidt
Vern Cotter
Robbie Deans
Nick Mallett
Michael Cheika

You could probably add Joe Worsely, Bernard Jachman, Eddie O'Sullivan and Ronan O'gara in a few years.

 

[gaston le gaff]

Firstly before any non French coaches are candidates pigs may have to fly!!!!! as we have said many times in the past 2 years change has to happen first at the FFR and till that happens nothing will change, if France lose all the Autumn Internationals and all the 6 Nationals PSA will still be in charge for the WC, thats just how it is!!!
If Laporte becomes President of the FFR after this season, then things will change but he will have tremendous opposition, the suits in Paris do not like change,they like confort, large meals, and good alcohol, and free tournament travel, with a massive iron curtain to protect them from the pro rugby world which is slowly surrounding them and bleeding them of O2. Galthie's contact with Montpellier ends in 2017 so he would be available then and there could always be a temp coach for 1/2 yrs,he is the obvious person for the job but as i said changes will happen before he is even considered. Watching him week in week out he is for me one of the best coaches in the world today if not the best, maybe i am a little biased I think, if it did happen the next WC in 2019 France would be there or there abouts that is sure, Galthie does not know the word failure. Montpellier have progressed from being an also ran finishing 8th to 12th in the TOP 14, to being a top of the table candidate we now only have to work out how to beat Toulon, but then everyone is still trying to do that with little success.
So i think you can name all the French speaking coaches you want but they will never be employed as coach of France, the difference between the TOP 14 clubs and the FFR are at the moment too many Worlds apart.!!!!!! But change maybe in the breeze!!!!!

 

[Big Ewis]

yes change may be in the breeze gaston with Laporte hovering over that president spot, but would that really 'change' a whole lot ? I hope and partially believe so atm.
Literally nothing can really be speculated on right now though, and we're just talking all possible scenarios here. I'll repeat a number of coaches are qualified to take over from the Top 14, but it's just a matter of who THEY pick, and for whatever unknown, actual reason...we'll see.

 

[FrenchFan]

I wasn't talking about this forum but french forums.

Change and FFR don't mix well.

And just getting a new coach in without changing the environment around won't be enough to start a new successful cycle. They've been missing too many ingredients since 2007 to really have a competitive national side. That includes among others a professional mindset and a healthy relationship with the top clubs. And good luck for rebuilding the latter. That will take years. Without the full cooperation of the clubs such as Toulouse how will they turn this around?