Barrett ahead of Cruden? Carter near the end?

[admartian]

I won't say no to either. Though I prefer Beauden's style.

But when Aaron is on, his passes and offloads are often sharp and magical.

 

[Adakins]

I am a Cruden fan, but I do have to say Barrett did impress me this weekend. I think maybe next year he will be starting,, Cruden seems to pick up ****les here and there now at international level. I hate to say it but that might be his undoing. He will probably stay in the game as Carter seems to have the same problem with injuries. But if they both (Cruden and Carter) keep picking up injuries Barrett has a strong possibility to get a starting position next year.

But thats just my two cents

 

[donmcdazzle]

He needs to sort out his defence quick smart, but other than that he had a very nice cameo. He did well not to let it rattle him.
Cruden played decently and ticked all the boxes but seemed a bit off, never really threatened the line as he usually does. It's been a while since he made a clean line-break which it seemed like he used to do regularly. Maybe the knee is holding him back a bit.

 

[ABs2011]

He needs to sort out his defence quick smart, but other than that he had a very nice cameo. He did well not to let it rattle him.
Cruden played decently and ticked all the boxes but seemed a bit off, never really threatened the line as he usually does. It's been a while since he made a clean line-break which it seemed like he used to do regularly. Maybe the knee is holding him back a bit.

That is obviously his biggest weakness, a major issue at Super Rugby level as well (to the point where he lost the starting 10 position this year)! It is also a massive unknown as to how he would go starting for the ABs against a quality opposition, whether he could control the game and make the right decisions.

 

[Larksea]

Barrett has been defending much better and made some very impressive tackles in tests this year, hes not the first person JDV has run through close to the line. Not many would have been able to stop him from that position 1v1

 

[ABs2011]

Barrett has been defending much better and made some very impressive tackles in tests this year, hes not the first person JDV has run through close to the line. Not many would have been able to stop him from that position 1v1

Yeah it's when he plays a full 80 minutes though that the missed tackles build up and become very noticeable - you only have to watch some of the Hurricanes games from this season to realize it is a pretty big issue for him. He will improve over time though, but at this stage it is a very important aspect of a 10s game that, amongst other things, differentiates Carter from Cruden and then Cruden from Barrett.

Agreed re the JdV tackle though. I'm not sure many in the world were going to stop him at that point.

 

[Darwin]

Barrett has been defending much better and made some very impressive tackles in tests this year, hes not the first person JDV has run through close to the line. Not many would have been able to stop him from that position 1v1

???

Most international rugby players should be able to tackle JdV when runs straight at them 10 metres out from the line. Barrett got caught in a bad position - if his technique was correct he would have stopped him easily. I think Barrett's defense is noticeably improving, but lets not pretend he didn't miss a simple one-on-one tackle (not that he was only one - Savea, Ben Smith, and even Sir Ritchie McCaw missed some simple tackles in the match too). Despite one missed tackle I thought Barrett was superb when he came on. No only did he score a brilliant individual try he made a couple of try saving tackles (he was the one that slowed/stopped JdV on a big break and allowed Luatua to knock the ball out of his with about 10 mins to go). Cruden has been very quiet in the last two tests (while Barrett has shone) - I still think Cruden is a clear number 2 behind Carter, but Barrett certainly has taken his chances, and his pace is a real weapon!

 

[ABs2011]

???

Most international rugby players should be able to tackle JdV when runs straight at them 10 metres out from the line. Barrett got caught in a bad position - if his technique was correct he would have stopped him easily. I think Barrett's defense is noticeably improving, but lets not pretend he didn't miss a simple one-on-one tackle (not that he was only one - Savea, Ben Smith, and even Sir Ritchie McCaw missed some simple tackles in the match too). Despite one missed tackle I thought Barrett was superb when he came on. No only did he score a brilliant individual try he made a couple of try saving tackles (he was the one that slowed/stopped JdV on a big break and allowed Luatua to knock the ball out of his with about 10 mins to go). Cruden has been very quiet in the last two tests (while Barrett has shone) - I still think Cruden is a clear number 2 behind Carter, but Barrett certainly has taken his chances, and his pace is a real weapon!

Agreed, IMO Barrett has the ability to bust tackles as well (all be it enhanced in recent times by the fact he is coming on when others are lower on energy). Cruden hits gaps well, runs good lines and creates chances via his off loads in traffic but I don't think he has the same power running game that Barrett has. In combination with Barrett's speed, for me it makes for a very nice 1-2 punch with Cruden starting and Barrett off the bench when the opposition is a bit tired and he (and the ABs) can capitalise on his strengths.

 

[Larksea]

???

Most international rugby players should be able to tackle JdV when runs straight at them 10 metres out from the line.

yeah like Nonu, oh wait because after Barrett JdV he then ran straight through Nonu as well.... JDV has done this time and time again this is definitely a case of well done to him rather than bad work from Barrett. I dont believe Cruden would have done better, he got bowled over a couple of times in the game as well. of the 10's around only carter would have been a good chance to stop jdv in that position i recon.

 

[austingtir]

I must also admit i have been impressed by Barrett. The thing that really got me was when JDV run over the top of him he struck right back straight away it was almost carteresque. As usually when carter makes a stuff up like gets charged down or something he comes back with a magical play.

And he seems to be a real handful for teams if he gets through a half gap and gets the speed up.

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

yeah like Nonu, oh wait because after Barrett JdV he then ran straight through Nonu as well.... JDV has done this time and time again this is definitely a case of well done to him rather than bad work from Barrett. I dont believe Cruden would have done better, he got bowled over a couple of times in the game as well. of the 10's around only carter would have been a good chance to stop jdv in that position i recon.

To be fair to Nonu though, he had little chance to prevent JDV from scoring after he ran through Barret. Once JDV got through Barret, it was always going to hard to stop him, no matter who you are. I mean JDV is a pretty big unit himself and does not go down that easy.

 

[Darwin]

yeah like Nonu, oh wait because after Barrett JdV he then ran straight through Nonu as well.... JDV has done this time and time again this is definitely a case of well done to him rather than bad work from Barrett. I dont believe Cruden would have done better, he got bowled over a couple of times in the game as well. of the 10's around only carter would have been a good chance to stop jdv in that position i recon.

How you should tackle a player 10kg heavier than you running at pace:


How you should not tackle a player 10kg heavier than you running at pace:



Spot the difference

I know you are a massive fan of Barrett, but he missed a (relatively simple) 1-on-1 tackle on JdV as he went far too high. Tackling too high has been Barrett's main defensive issue for some time now - when he does go low he is actually pretty good on defense, as he has a bit of size for a first-five. As I said before JdV is a good strong ball runner, but most players should be able to tackle him if he runs straight at them (he is not Jonah!). Cruden stopped him a couple of times during the game by tackling low (he tackled Bismark du Plessis in full charge a couple of times too!) - I see no reason why he wouldn't have stopped him again (indeed I believe Barrett would have stopped him if he had tackled low!). Nonu should probably have stopped JdV after Barrett missed him, but as Ryotothedragon points out Nonu's tackle was far more difficult than Barrett's (and Nonu missing a tackle doesn't change the fact Barrett missed a simple tackle - a point I made in my original post!).

 

[donmcdazzle]

yeah like Nonu, oh wait because after Barrett JdV he then ran straight through Nonu as well.... JDV has done this time and time again this is definitely a case of well done to him rather than bad work from Barrett. I dont believe Cruden would have done better, he got bowled over a couple of times in the game as well. of the 10's around only carter would have been a good chance to stop jdv in that position i recon.

I have to admire your blind, foolish loyalty to your pet players Larksea. Not many people could turn JdV into '95 Lomu with a full head of steam up, but you've talked yourself into it.

 

[Larksea]

How you should tackle a player 10kg heavier than you running at pace:

View attachment 2485
How you should not tackle a player 10kg heavier than you running at pace:

View attachment 2486

Spot the difference

I know you are a massive fan of Barrett, but he missed a (relatively simple) 1-on-1 tackle on JdV as he went far too high. Tackling too high has been Barrett's main defensive issue for some time now - when he does go low he is actually pretty good on defense, as he has a bit of size for a first-five. As I said before JdV is a good strong ball runner, but most players should be able to tackle him if he runs straight at them (he is not Jonah!). Cruden stopped him a couple of times during the game by tackling low (he tackled Bismark du Plessis in full charge a couple of times too!) - I see no reason why he wouldn't have stopped him again (indeed I believe Barrett would have stopped him if he had tackled low!). Nonu should probably have stopped JdV after Barrett missed him, but as Ryotothedragon points out Nonu's tackle was far more difficult than Barrett's (and Nonu missing a tackle doesn't change the fact Barrett missed a simple tackle - a point I made in my original post!).

errr.. AAC? seriously, hes about 10cm shorter and 10KG lighter than JDV. Spot the difference? thats the difference. Cruden would not be a good example, Barrett got blown over once in that game, cruden got bowled over twice.

 

[Larksea]

I have to admire your blind, foolish loyalty to your pet players Larksea. Not many people could turn JdV into '95 Lomu with a full head of steam up, but you've talked yourself into it.

upset because barrett is overtaking your pet player cruden?

I just don think much should be made of this one missed tackle against probably the best 12 in the world. Defense is obviously something to keep an eye on for Barrett it has not been great in super rugby. But hes hardly made any mistakes on defense in tests this year. quite a turnaround.

I think sometimes us kiwis find it easier to pick on faults the AB's make than give credit to the opposition. Sure its not black and white but for me this is definitely more well done JDV than bad work by barrett.

 

[donmcdazzle]

upset because barrett is overtaking your pet player cruden?

I just don think much should be made of this one missed tackle against probably the best 12 in the world. Defense is obviously something to keep an eye on for Barrett it has not been great in super rugby. But hes hardly made any mistakes on defense in tests this year. quite a turnaround.

I think sometimes us kiwis find it easier to pick on faults the AB's make than give credit to the opposition. Sure its not black and white but for me this is definitely more well done JDV than bad work by barrett.

I like Cruden but I don't close my eyes and ears to his shortfalls. It was a regulation tackle, Barrett missed it and unfortunately for him it stood out as it led directly to a try. It doesn't mean Barrett had a bad game or is a bad player. These things happen. You sound ridiculous defending such an obvious error is my point.

 

[donmcdazzle]

errr.. AAC? seriously, hes about 10cm shorter and 10KG lighter than JDV. Spot the difference? thats the difference. Cruden would not be a good example, Barrett got blown over once in that game, cruden got bowled over twice.

According to the respective official websites, JdV is 100kg and AAC is 98kg. Wrong again.

 

[admartian]

Oh you guys.

 

[Darwin]

errr.. AAC? seriously, hes about 10cm shorter and 10KG lighter than JDV. Spot the difference? thats the difference. Cruden would not be a good example, Barrett got blown over once in that game, cruden got bowled over twice.

Seriously, you missed the point that badly? I didn't think it was that subtle

The exact size of the players involved is completely irrelevant, though as donmcdazzle pointed out JdV and AAC are approximately the same weight (and Cruden is much smaller than AAC, therefore the size difference between Cruden and AAC is actually much larger than between Barrett and JdV!). The point is Barrett's tackling technique was shocking, which was the main reason he missed the tackle. If someone bigger than you is running at you at full speed and you try and tackle them high there is a high chance you will be bumped off. It doesn't matter who you are - if Dan Carter/Aaron Cruden/Conrad Smith/John Key had attempted to tackle JdV using the same technique as Barrett they would have similarly been bumped off. Similarly if Barrett has tackled JdV low around the hips using good tackling technique I believe he would have made the tackle. Of course there is no guarantee of this (as JdV is a powerful ball runner), but you would back most international rugby players to be able to tackle JdV if he runs straight at them (if not South Africa should simple have him crash the ball up all day given he is unstoppable with ball in hand ).

No-one is trying to make a big deal out of this one missed tackle. Indeed everybody here seems to have agreed that Barrett had a superb half of rugby. The problem is that you can't seem to accept that one of your favourite players made a mistake. Instead you make a range of excuses for him: JdV is unstoppable with ball in hand, other players missed tackles too etc. If you simply accepted that Barrett made a single mistake no-one would say anything! Other players missed tackles too: Faumuina, McCaw, Aaron Smith, Cruden, Nonu, Ben Smith & Savea missed some obvious ones - the reason we aren't continually talking about these is that no-one is making excuses for these players missing tackles...

 

[admartian]

This is a classic case of something being more in the middle. Barrett made a mistake but JDV is also a great ball runner; thus the two combining, both deserve criticism and applause to each their own merit. The only true way we can test this is to have cloned Beauden, and made him tackle JDV properly.