Australian Super 15 progress in 2013 - discussion

[Gena_ZA]

Taine Randall wrote this weekend:

"Australia's Super Rugby dominance of New Zealand teams should serve as a warning: Kiwi sides preoccupied with a running game have become too predictable and vulnerable." Seven from nine boys, seven from nine"
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/8577954/Australian-teams-wise-up-to-our-tactics

Was thinking the same for a while now and must say for the sake of the tournament and Ausie rugby this is good thing.
- The big names of the Warrathas starting to perform
- Reds looking very much like the winning team of old
- Brumbies very competitive and a sure threat to the ***le
- Force steadily increasing and showing guts and determination
- Rebels still bottom dwellers but can and will cause an upset or two

These above are the obvious spectator comments.

How do you see it, what is causing the change?
- The Lions tour
- Potential new coach for the Wallabies soon
- Is the NZ way of playing getting a little old and are the suffering for "Bok Rugby" syndrome albeit the opposide of tactics?

 

[lynam1104]

I think it's mostly the lions effect, it's a big deal for all the players they all want to put their hands up and get selected for the lions tour IMO.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Isn't it a bit of everything??

We have now seen in just one year what a big change Jake White has had at the Brumbies.

There seems to be a collective agreement of the style of play the aussies will play vs the B&I Lions. but I just hope it doesn't backfire.

 

[tenpm]

I don't know about that. I haven't been watching all the Aussie derby games, but I feel that the success of the Australian teams have less to do with individual players doing well and more with the players functioning well as a team (with a possible exception of the Waratahs).

 

[Hulk Hogan]

Age. At the world Cup Australia was one of the youngest teams, we had been for years, now all those young superstars are growing up. Look at Quade, his game is becoming better as he's maturing he's becoming more consistent, The players who were 18 - 21 a few years ago are now 23 - 26 which is generally when players produce their most consistent games. I'd say Australian rugby has matured and we are entering possibly the start of a new golden age for us. Which should last approximatly 18 months before we fall over our own feet again.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

NZ teams being poor When you look at MOST of the games between NZ and Oz teams, particularly the upsets, the NZ teams have been decidedly average. Hurricanes v Reds, Blues v Waratahs, Chiefs v Reds/Waratahs.

 

[Larksea]

NZ teams in general are under performing

Crusaders are without the three best players in the world and struggling a bit with a new gameplan.

Highlanders just can't buy a win, some bad decisions, some bad gameplans and some unlucky (bad) officiating.

Blues are on the up from last year and are the only team really playing near their potential

Chiefs I think are starting to feel the bite of injuries in particular to barlow and Clarke. They have also struggled to get back to pace after their Bye. And I also think the selections have been chopped and changed too much. really unsettled with constant changes at prop, loosies, midfield and wing. They still look deadly on attack and will recover but there trademark ruthless defense is off.

Canes just are not finding the standard they set at the end of last year. Jane injured and TJP & barrett both kinda off their best.

in general NZ rugby just not really klicking, I think I said a few months ago I felt NZ was going to have a poor year, even though I didn't want to see it happen - it's happening.

Very similar cycle to what I think we had in 09-2009 for 12-2013, quite clearly our top players were burned out at the end of last year and we are seeing the effects now.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

Crusaders are without the three best players in the world and struggling a bit with a new gameplan.

I agree it must be very hard playing without Will Genia, Quade Cooper and Digby Ioane in their team

 

[nickdnz]

I think part of it is just teams playing badly. It's not suprising that the two bottom teams (Highlanders and Crusaders) have the two worst coaches. I'm certainly not getting all doom and gloom - Australian's get very excited when they start doing reasonably well - but then get their arse cheeks ripped open during international season. The amount of self back patting during 2011 with the Reds is an example. Still wouldn't be suprised to see a NZ team win the thing.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

I think part of it is just teams playing badly. It's not suprising that the two bottom teams (Highlanders and Crusaders) have the two worst coaches. I'm certainly not getting all doom and gloom - Australian's get very excited when they start doing reasonably well - but then get their arse cheeks ripped open during international season. The amount of self back patting during 2011 with the Reds is an example. Still wouldn't be suprised to see a NZ team win the thing.

To be fair all 3 Reds players included in the Wallabies in 2011 were the standouts ahhaha

 

[nickdnz]

To be fair all 3 Reds players included in the Wallabies in 2011 were the standouts ahhaha

Who? Davied Pocock played for Western Force and now Brumbies

 

[Hulk Hogan]

Who? Davied Pocock played for Western Force and now Brumbies

Well known Queensland Reds players like Stephen Donald, Dan Carter and Richie McCaw.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'm shocked by the remarks from the NZ guys saying that their teams are playing poorly.

I rather think it's that the other teams have all raised their play to a new level.

let's look at this shall we.

the NZ conference are the only conference with a team that hasn't won a single game, where as the SA and AUS conference every team has won at least 2 games.

Every SA team that has toured, has won a game on tour, either in NZ or AUS.

If we look at the logs, AUS has really only 2 teams in contention (the same as last year). whereas in SA and NZ it's a battle between 4 teams for playoff spots. IMO the Force and the Rebels will be the main reason why AUS will in all likelihood have 2 teams in the top 6.

There is no clear cut stand-out team this year. Every team has had moments of brilliance and moments of shittyness.

But here is the difference, and it has been mentioned in many news articles and even in other threads as well:
SA teams have expanded their gameplay, utilised their backline more and showed some brilliant offloads which we aren't used to.
Aussie teams have shown dominant forward packs, better scrummaging and competitiveness at lineouts.
NZ are pretty much the same.

I think the other difference is the youth factor. I could be wrong here, but it seems that SA and AUS have had better young and new players in their squads than the NZ teams.

Lastly the Coaching. New coaches, bring new ideas. John Kirwan and Jake White are prime examples of this.

All in all, this competition is much more exciting than last year, I even set the alarm early on saturday mornings to catch the NZ derbies...

 

[nickdnz]

I'm shocked by the remarks from the NZ guys saying that their teams are playing poorly.

I rather think it's that the other teams have all raised their play to a new level.

let's look at this shall we.

the NZ conference are the only conference with a team that hasn't won a single game, where as the SA and AUS conference every team has won at least 2 games.

Every SA team that has toured, has won a game on tour, either in NZ or AUS.

If we look at the logs, AUS has really only 2 teams in contention (the same as last year). whereas in SA and NZ it's a battle between 4 teams for playoff spots. IMO the Force and the Rebels will be the main reason why AUS will in all likelihood have 2 teams in the top 6.

There is no clear cut stand-out team this year. Every team has had moments of brilliance and moments of shittyness.

But here is the difference, and it has been mentioned in many news articles and even in other threads as well:
SA teams have expanded their gameplay, utilised their backline more and showed some brilliant offloads which we aren't used to.
Aussie teams have shown dominant forward packs, better scrummaging and competitiveness at lineouts.
NZ are pretty much the same.

I think the other difference is the youth factor. I could be wrong here, but it seems that SA and AUS have had better young and new players in their squads than the NZ teams.

Lastly the Coaching. New coaches, bring new ideas. John Kirwan and Jake White are prime examples of this.

All in all, this competition is much more exciting than last year, I even set the alarm early on saturday mornings to catch the NZ derbies...

I'm sure its much more convenient to assume everyone is playing much better than previously other than NZ - but looking at how the Hurricanes, Crusaders and Highlanders are playing this year, there is clearly a drop in form. The Canes were counter attacking from everywhere, now Andre Taylor hasn't make a linebreak in the whole competition. We're missing Cory Jane desperately.

Don't know wtf the bold part means. Do you mean on tour? Or against a different conference?

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'm sure its much more convenient to assume everyone is playing much better than previously other than NZ - but looking at how the Hurricanes, Crusaders and Highlanders are playing this year, there is clearly a drop in form. The Canes were counter attacking from everywhere, now Andre Taylor hasn't make a linebreak in the whole competition. We're missing Cory Jane desperately.

Don't know wtf the bold part means. Do you mean on tour? Or against a different conference?

It's simple really: The Highlanders are the only team with a 0 in the win column...

 

[nickdnz]

It's simple really: The Highlanders are the only team with a 0 in the win column...

Ahhhh, right. That makes more sense. Yeah. Still we'll see how long it lasts. It's win/win for me, if the Highlanders win a few games it means they probably won't remain bottom of the table, and if they don't I can continue torturing my friends in Otago by writing on their facebook page messages like "9 and counting" until they block me.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Ahhhh, right. That makes more sense. Yeah. Still we'll see how long it lasts. It's win/win for me, if the Highlanders win a few games it means they probably won't remain bottom of the table, and if they don't I can continue torturing my friends in Otago by writing on their facebook page messages like "9 and counting" until they block me.

Lol!!

Like I'm doing with my Lions fans... I'm now saying to them that the Kings are better than they were and that they won't win the Promotion/Relegation match... and then I use the saying which everyone used to say to the All Blacks... 4 more years...

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Q. Will the Lions get back their loaned players for the play off match?

 

[Gena_ZA]

A. yup, whats left of them

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

So even if (hypothetically) the Stormers finished last, they would not be able to use Conrad Jantjies for the playoff? Seems a bit queer...