Australia vs England - 3 Tests - June 2016

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

He wishes he was a Chiefs fan but tribal loyalty has him welded to Sale tighter that Dave Seymore's jawline.

Wow, a Sale supporter? I didn't know they existed anymore.

 

[j'nuh]

Kill me. I don't think my sanity can survive that contest.

So how about if I told you it was Haskell vs Hooper and Pocock?

So press are suggesting team will be something like this?

1) Vunipola
2) Hartley
3) Cole
4) Launchbury
5) Kruis
6) Itoje
7) Haskell
8) Vunipola
9) Youngs
10) Farrell
11) Nowell
12) T'eo
13) JJ
14) Watson
15) Brown

(With prob a bench of)
16) George
17) Mullan
18) Hill
19) Lawes
20) Clifford
21) Care
22) Ford
23) Daly

It's been a long old time since I've been as happy with an England team selection. (Ignoring Haskell.) Jones, you may have just made me happy, you wonderful *******.

 

[Patchey]

So how about if I told you it was Haskell vs Hooper and Pocock?

*head explodes*

Itoje will save us...right?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'm stealing that line and passing it off as my own :lol:

Welcome to the forum.

so when talking about sidestepping someone, could you say they could sidestep someone inside a Cole...?

I recon Hasks orders will be along the lines of "Hask smash". His technique over the ball in non-existent so all we can do is hope he can hit Pooper hard enough to prevent them getting turnovers, and the Aussies will target that area hard. It's been a weakness for England for so long it's pretty pathetic no attempts have been made to fix it.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

so when talking about sidestepping someone, could you say they could sidestep someone inside a Cole...?

I recon Hasks orders will be along the lines of "Hask smash". His technique over the ball in non-existent so all we can do is hope he can hit Pooper hard enough to prevent them getting turnovers, and the Aussies will target that area hard. It's been a weakness for England for so long it's pretty pathetic no attempts have been made to fix it.

I think the phasing out of Robshaw and the inclusion of Harrison as well as Kvesic's cap vs Wales shows that an attempt is being made to fix it, just not at the rate it needs to be.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I recon Hasks orders will be along the lines of "Hask smash".

Considering how passive his carrying and defence were in the Six Nations this terrifies me.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Considering how passive his carrying and defence were in the Six Nations this terrifies me.

Carrying maybe, but I'd disagree with you re: defence. I remember him making a number of hits per game that stopped what would otherwise have been effective carries in their tracks, dominating the collision if not driving the ball carrier backwards.

 

[MrTea_32]

As much as I like Luther, he is a liability when off form. To me, it seems like he gets issues with timing when his confidence is knocked and ends up knocking on a lot. And his defence isn't amazing normally, but he *generally* reads the play okay...when he's off, he's really vulnerable, particularly on the outside shoulder and to any players with good footwork. Having him next to Ford is pretty scary defensively. It's a shame really as he can take over games when he's playing well, at least at the AP level. You could argue that sandwiching him between Farrell and Joseph might mitigate some of that if he isn't playing well but it is a risk.

Do you really want a guy in the team who has to be looked after by our 10 & 13, especially someone the size of Luther, He should be a brick wall.
If we were gonna put in someone at 12 who has suspect defense then we should have taken Eastmond instead.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Do you really want a guy in the team who has to be looked after by our 10 & 13, especially someone the size of Luther, He should be a brick wall.
If we were gonna put in someone at 12 who has suspect defense then we should have taken Eastmond instead.

I don't think people really understand Luthers defensive issues. He is a good defensive centre most of the time but will be stepped or make at least one glaring error per game. He's not a defensive liability like cipriani was or Ford etc .

I think mentally he just shuts down sometimes and that's when his head drops and mistakes happen.

He's clearly been a great premiership player for us but he's just that and nothing more.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I don't think people really understand Luthers defensive issues. He is a good defensive centre most of the time but will be stepped or make at least one glaring error per game. He's not a defensive liability like cipriani was or Ford etc .

I think mentally he just shuts down sometimes and that's when his head drops and mistakes happen.

He's clearly been a great premiership player for us but he's just that and nothing more.

It's a different kind of weakness but I don't see how that makes him any less of a liability to be honest.

Also not convinced he's good most of the time. His positioning is off quite often IMO

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I don't think people really understand Luthers defensive issues. He is a good defensive centre most of the time but will be stepped or make at least one glaring error per game. He's not a defensive liability like cipriani was or Ford etc .

I think mentally he just shuts down sometimes and that's when his head drops and mistakes happen.

He's clearly been a great premiership player for us but he's just that and nothing more.

I think that's pretty fair.

I recall one game against Leicester a year of two back when he looked an absolute world beater, but we don't see enough of that. Consistency seems to be his problem - with his physical attributes he should be making more of an impression than he does.

 

[Jimbo87]

I don't think people really understand Luthers defensive issues. He is a good defensive centre most of the time but will be stepped or make at least one glaring error per game. He's not a defensive liability like cipriani was or Ford etc .

I think mentally he just shuts down sometimes and that's when his head drops and mistakes happen.

He's clearly been a great premiership player for us but he's just that and nothing more.

Simply put he is simply not of international quality, Te'o looks interesting played league along side Sam Burgess...

 

[spartan32]

So would it be fair to say the back line most would like to start is

9. Youngs (Care is never going to start)
10. Faz
11. Nowell
12. Teo
13. JJ
14. Watson
15. Brown

The fact that EJ has brought Teo seems to suggest that Faz is not going to be covering that position and given that he is the in form 10 he must get the nod to start.

The question then seems to be who to have on the bench. If he allows 3 backs Care will have to be one, and I'd imagine Ford will be the other, but who would take the third spot? (Assuming there is one) I would hope it would be someone with the ability to change it up so I'd lean towards Daly. Nowell and Watson could cover full back so need for Goode to bench, and Burrell for Teo is a bit too like for like, and in any event Faz could step into the 12 channel and allow for ford at 10 if needs be.

There also the plus of Daly being able to knock pens over from 50+ as I understand it, which could come in handy.

As and aside I do quite like the idea of Itoje at 6 allowing for Launch to play alongside Kruis. That's three really quality lads up front and gives loads of jumping options in the early exchanges and I think the set piece is the area we really have to dominate. Deft kicking for territory and spoiling Aussie ball at line out time would be wise tactic. I think trying to play them at their own expansive game, especially early on, would be a big risk.

 

[Peat]

If you're looking for a back who can change the way we play, I'd argue Marland Yarde is actually the best man for number 23. He's got a more direct power game than either of our other wingers which could be a good change of pace. Nowell covers 13, Watson covers 15, so covering wing covers the whole back line.

I'd pick Daly, but if I want to change things up, it would be Yarde.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

If you're looking for a back who can change the way we play, I'd argue Marland Yarde is actually the best man for number 23. He's got a more direct power game than either of our other wingers which could be a good change of pace. Nowell covers 13, Watson covers 15, so covering wing covers the whole back line.

I'd pick Daly, but if I want to change things up, it would be Yarde.

I can see an enthusiastic Yarde coming on at 65 minutes being a game changer, especially working off his wing and close in carries (weren't a couple of his tries in New Zealand a pass or less off the ruck?).

Maybe it's that Daly's been given very little game time, but I'm not sure I've seen anything from him to make me think he'd be a game changer.

 

[spartan32]

If you're looking for a back who can change the way we play, I'd argue Marland Yarde is actually the best man for number 23. He's got a more direct power game than either of our other wingers which could be a good change of pace. Nowell covers 13, Watson covers 15, so covering wing covers the whole back line.

I'd pick Daly, but if I want to change things up, it would be Yarde.

That's an interesting point, although Nowell is a pretty strong chap in his own right, but I suppose Yarde is bigger and more direct, but I'm not sure that can change games.

And yes Nowell has played 13, but wasn't that only once and because of a last minute injury for the Chiefs? Don't get me wrong I think he could make a handy centre, but jumping into it at test level against the Aussies may be a stretch too far.

I think Daly can be pretty deadly, especially against a tired defence. He just offers more then Yarde, who's game is a little one dimensional.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

That's an interesting point, although Nowell is a pretty strong chap in his own right, but I suppose Yarde is bigger and more direct, but I'm not sure that can change games.

And yes Nowell has played 13, but wasn't that only once and because of a last minute injury for the Chiefs? Don't get me wrong I think he could make a handy centre, but jumping into it at test level against the Aussies may be a stretch too far.

I think Daly can be pretty deadly, especially against a tired defence. He just offers more then Yarde, who's game is a little one dimensional.

Nowell has started at 13 with Exeter for large chunks of his career. Quite a few people consider it to be his natural position- and one he plays better than wing.

The jury's out on Daly at international level, we simply haven't seen enough of him to know and he's certainly worth exploring to find out, but Yarde has a proven impact- look up his tries from the 2014 Summer tour.

 

[Jimbo87]

Can any one explain why Christian Wade seems to be over looked for the main team, to me he appears to have that flair the backs often lack.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Can any one explain why Christian Wade seems to be over looked for the main team, to me he appears to have that flair the backs often lack.

Poor defence and would get targeted by teams under the high ball. He's the best attacking wing in Europe but every other aspect of his game is worrying.

 

[Jimbo87]

Poor defence and would get targeted by teams under the high ball. He's the best attacking wing in Europe but every other aspect of his game is worrying.

I see, if he offers that much in attack it would be nice to have him as an option if the situation requires a roll of the dice, kind of like the World Cup really in the final 20 against Australia, the game was already lost kind of do or die situation.