Antisocial, societal issues thread

[Saintjay]

Do you think a big contributory factor is the breakdown of the family unit?

Depends divorce rates are lower now than in the 1980's and 90's i believe. It's difficult to compare because crime recording stats changed considerably in the early 2000's. So is crime higher with less divorces or was in on par just crime recording wasn't as effective. It's hard to say i think.

It's a combination of schooling, where you live, poverty, life expectations etc.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Do you think a big contributory factor is the breakdown of the family unit?

I think so. But either way too many kids seem to lack the stability and role models they need.

And I think bad parenting is a big thing too. By which I mean parents who think little Johnny is the best thing since sliced bread and constantly tell him - and everyone else - so, creating a sense of entitlement. From my own eyes and those of a couple of teachers in the family, increasing numbers of kids don't understand the word "no". Good parenting is ultimately about equipping for adulthood and discipline and dealing with disappointment are part of that.

 

[General Melchett]

I think so. But either way too many kids seem to lack the stability and role models they need.

And I think bad parenting is a big thing too. By which I mean parents who think little Johnny is the best thing since sliced bread and constantly tell him - and everyone else - so, creating a sense of entitlement. From my own eyes and those of a couple of teachers in the family, increasing numbers of kids don't understand the word "no". Good parenting is ultimately about equipping for adulthood and discipline and dealing with disappointment are part of that.

I've seen this too. Many parents seem to hand over control to their kids at a very young age. I've seen children dictate to their parents what needs to go in the the weekly food shop and the parents just go along with it. Many kids I know get taxi'd around everywhere and rarely have to walk, cycle or take the bus. Many parents won't hear a bad word against their kids almost to the point where it's bordering on delusion and being in denial. Is it because they think anything perceived to be negative or critical is a reflection on their parenting skills? A previous upstairs neighbour of mine let her kids repeatedly jump off the sofa onto the floor which made my whole flat shake to the point where paint dust/residue from the ceiling kept falling all over the my furniture. I politely explained to the mother what was happening and her response was "children should be allowed to express themselves freely and without restriction" or some boll0x like that. A completely selfish and irrational response to what was a reasonable and politely delivered request.

As hard as people try to be good parents and teach their kids discipline, it must be really in hard when they are surrounded by friends who are entitled and spoilt rotten as that just puts pressure on the good parents who try their best. I don't have kids yet but would worry about how they'd turn out in current society as it's hard to imagine things not getting worse.

 

[McTallshort]

Success for Social media is clicks, disagreement causes more clicks so the algorithm on most platforms pushes that. The YouTube algorithm is ******* poison. The comments section on things like planet rugby seems infested with people who you never met or play against in a rugby setting.

People are either with you or against you.

Oh and everyone who lived through the second world war is dead so no-one alive now understands the consequences of intolerance and intolerant views.

 

[ncurd]

I'm loving this talk about parenting because I didn't hear exactly the same arguments in the 90s

I remember one guy I use to work saying schools in the 80's were nothing more than correctional facilities for children bad behaviour was rampant.

You guys have some heavy rose tinted glasses.


Still as relevent as it ever was.

 

[ncurd]

Depends divorce rates are lower now than in the 1980's and 90's i believe.

This is a difficult one. Divorce rates are higher among divorcees this usually to heavily skew the 50% of marriages end up in divorces stat. My sister-in-law would contribute to 42% of the divorces on my wife's side of the family single handidly.

I also think with birth rates lower, the distigmatisation of the single mother and requirement of shotgun marriages. (Which one of my grandparents treated to do and the other actually did because their parents disapproved). Leads to less bad marriages in first place.

 

[General Melchett]

You guys have some heavy rose tinted glasses.


Still as relevent as it ever was.

Not really. I'm well aware that times change - some things are better now and some things are worse. I've actually discussed this at length with many friends and the consensus is that overall we consider ourselves quite fortunate to have grown up and been brought up when we were. We also agreed that being a parent was and still is bloody hard.

 

[McTallshort]

Not really. I'm well aware that times change - some things are better now and some things are worse. I've actually discussed this at length with many friends and the consensus is that overall we consider ourselves quite fortunate to have grown up and been brought up when we were. We also agreed that being a parent was and still is bloody hard.

I'm not sure about that. As a Gen x I have to say my generation was feral. Drinking on park benches at 15, sexually active at the same time sometimes younger. Being a parent of 3 with one being 18 I have to say the current generation of kids seem a lot more brighter, nicer and not so bothered about nailing bad cider at the local park. It might have something to do with leaded petrol but the current generation of kids is better than mine

 

[ncurd]

I know I'm talking through my personal experience here. But I know for a fact any poor behaviour in 90's that was reported to parents or teachers resulted in zero behaviour change from the kids.

The biggest contributing factor was maturing was when they hit 16ish realising that their behaviours were not right.

I don't think parenting and styles of parenting have changed much. My nephew has a very similar disposition to myself and is going through the exact same **** nearly 30 years later.

 

[Saintjay]

This is a difficult one. Divorce rates are higher among divorcees this usually to heavily skew the 50% of marriages end up in divorces stat. My sister-in-law would contribute to 42% of the divorces on my wife's side of the family single handidly.

I also think with birth rates lower, the distigmatisation of the single mother and requirement of shotgun marriages. (Which one of my grandparents treated to do and the other actually did because their parents disapproved). Leads to less bad marriages in first place.

It's like age range of prisoners i think 30-40 year olds make up the highest age range. So an argument could be made that adults born in the 50's and 60's did a pretty bad job of parenting. Or your more likely to be repeating offending by the time you're 30 and more likely to receive a custodial sentence.

I do think there's an element of rose tinted spectacles going on. Drink driving, no seat belts, domestic violence etc was not recorded and reported so the stats are heavily skewed so these plus others to it look bad today rather than 40-50 plus years ago. What isn't acceptable today vs yesterday etc etc.

 

[ncurd]

I'm not sure about that. As a Gen x I have to say my generation was feral. Drinking on park benches at 15, sexually active at the same time sometimes younger. Being a parent of 3 with one being 18 I have to say the current generation of kids seem a lot more brighter, nicer and not so bothered about nailing bad cider at the local park. It might have something to do with leaded petrol but the current generation of kids is better than mine

I read something about the correlation of violent crime and leaded petrol once. Which is really interesting.

I dunno about kids in general definitely good parents==good kids. But not having my own it's hard to tell my sisters kids are great but my sister is an early years practioner who now runs multiple nurseries. She had an unfair hand to mist in knowing what to do with 8 years experience before having her first child. My wife's best friend kid walks over her all the time because she just gives in all the time.

Kids in our town definitely seam better for my few interactions. Very little hanging around outside causing a nuisance. But I'm sure it's diffrent in larger town or inner cities.

 

[Yulia]

I don't know what you're talking about tbh, I was also growing in 90s and for my parents it was enough just to look at me strictly so that I'd quickly change my behaviour, and almost all the children I knew at that time were very obedient. Of course there were desobedient children as well,but these were rather exceptions and not like nowaday - vice versa.

 

[McTallshort]

I read something about the correlation of violent crime and leaded petrol once. Which is really interesting.

I dunno about kids in general definitely good parents==good kids. But not having my own it's hard to tell my sisters kids are great but my sister is an early years practioner who now runs multiple nurseries. She had an unfair hand to mist in knowing what to do with 8 years experience before having her first child. My wife's best friend kid walks over her all the time because she just gives in all the time.

Kids in our town definitely seam better for my few interactions. Very little hanging around outside causing a nuisance. But I'm sure it's diffrent in larger town or inner cities.

My cousin who lives in the states says there is a distinct correlation between banning leaded petrol and the general intelligence increase in kids

 

[Bada-Bing!]

 

[ncurd]

I am only defending her right to offend, and you have the right to call her transphobic but you don't have the right to tell me to not read her books, enjoy HP films etc because of her views.

Taken from other thread

I haven't told you anything you can continue adding wealth to a transphobic bigot if you wish. That's on your conscience not mine.

I stopped buying Orson Scott Card's books nearly two decades ago for being a homophobe. Was too young to a stance on Lovercraft (who died penniless thanks god) and Dahl.

 

[Saintjay]

I think you can still support something a be against the autors/countries politics etc. Are people who support Palestinian showing support for a transphobic regime with a horredous LGBTQ+ regime, probably not. But there marching in support of a country and groups beliefs where being homosexual can be a death sentence.

Just because someone enjoys her books doesn't make them transphobic. Or otherwise people who use anything Saudi / Qatar backed are simply hypocritics because there paying money into transphobic regimes simply because it's convenient to fly from Heathrow for example or watch there team play Man City.

That's why i find the sports thing confusing. Loads of people support transwomens rights. Agree they are women yet have no issue saying they should be excluded from womens sport. That doesn't seem very inclusive and supportive to me.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Taken from other thread

I haven't told you anything you can continue adding wealth to a transphobic bigot if you wish. That's on your conscience not mine.

I stopped buying Orson Scott Card's books nearly two decades ago for being a homophobe. Was too young to a stance on Lovercraft (who died penniless thanks god) and Dahl.

My conscience is fine thanks. I don't need to be offended for another group. Got enough issues of my own.

Let's just agree to disagree. This discussion point is going no where.

 

[Yulia]

I think you can still support something a be against the autors/countries politics etc

That's a complicated topic,but in general I agree.
I like one modern author very much,his style reminds me of Leo Tolstoy. His novels are just brilliant. But I strongly against his political views and strongly against some of his actions, let's say. Yet, I can't deny that he's incredibly talented,has an interesting point of view on some historic events and ,in general, is an intelligent person. Just when it comes to modern politics,the person has weird views and is doing weird things.
I don't know if we should "cancel" someone really talented (and cancel his/her works) in case if we don't share/strongly against a point of view of this person

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

That's why i find the sports thing confusing. Loads of people support transwomens rights. Agree they are women yet have no issue saying they should be excluded from womens sport. That doesn't seem very inclusive and supportive to me.

I think the issue there is one of 'advantage' and level playing fields. It's a very vexed issue with no perfect solutions that I'm not wading into although I do follow a couple of sports where it's really blown up. People like Sharron Davies have taken a huge amount of flak for their stance.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Van Morrison is a whack job with some dangerous opinions. I'm still scratching him off the bucket list in June, he's a musical genius.

Not a HP fan but I still watch the IT crowd and Father Ted so pretty similar there.

I'll root for Tiger Woods until the day he retires.

I played a Trump golf course awhile back too because it's one of the best in Ireland and that's how I like to spend some of my disposable income.

I have a line for sure, Kanye has been wiped from my playlists I'm pretty sure but it's a case by case basis thing for me. Conor McGregor won't get a cent out of me. I don't buy Israeli produce.

If I only engaged with people I agreed with completely on sensitive topics I'd live a boring and fairly lonely life. If I made sure every cent was spent ethically I'd probably have to change career for the time it'd take. I pick and choose things and accept that it's a flawed approach and try not to spend money dangerously. e.g Bought weed while in Cali but wouldn't here (anymore - young, dumb, impulsive etc…), don't believe there's anything wrong with casual drug use but funding gangs is a line for me.

As for trans women competing in sports, Inalways thought height alone is enough to make it unfair. It's an advantage in virtually every sport. Can safely say I'm not we'll read on the matter but it's one that I'm reasonably confident in saying that it's not an inequity even if it is an inequality. I'm fine with that.