All Blacks vs New Zealand Maori

[danger]

The NZRU has made alot of mistakes of late, but one that i find unforgivable is the culling of the New Zealand Maori Rugby team. especially given the timing, a mere year out from the 100th anniversary of Maori rugby. There is alot of history there, yet the NZRU seems to think finances are so dire that there is no room for the team.

I say the NZ Maori team should seek its own sponsors and challenge the All Blacks. I dont think its ever been done before, and i think the Maori have a very good chance of winning given Graham Henrys awful selections and management.

To make things more interesting, the fact that they have no longer have any affiliation to the NZRU, and they are an invitational team means that they should in theory be able to enlist players from over seas.

A team of (ive bracketed overseas players with NZ based ones incase overseas players are not allowed.);

15)Bruce Reihana/Tamati Ellison
14)Timana Tahu/Rene Ranger
13)Rua Tipoki/Richard Kahui
12)Riki Flutey/Tim Bateman
11)Rico Gear/Hosea Gear
10)Carlos Spencer/Aaron Cruden
9)Richard Kingi/Piri Weepu
8)Liam Messam
7)Marty Holah/Scott Waldrom
6)Daniel Braid/Tanerau Latimer
5)Paul ***o/Jason Eaton
4)Isaac Ross
3)Carl Hayman/Clint Newland
2)Jeremy Paul/Hika Elliot
1)Pek Cowan/Hikairo Forbes

16)Aled De Malmance
17)Kees Meuws
18)Ross Filipo
19)Colin Bourke
20)Chris Smylie
21)Quade Cooper/Stephen Brett
22)Leon McDonald

Would give the current ABs a good go, how awesome would it be watching the All Blacks face another Haka for the first time, and just maybe the Maori team winning 100 years after their inception.

 

[Randwick Kingfisher]

It's not a bad idea 'cos I dont think I've ever seen each other play against one another. Money will be the issue.

 

[Bullitt]

Actually looks a bloody good lineup, although bare in mind that Tipoki has retired and Rico Gear is now utter garbage.

 

[danger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Sep 22 2009, 05:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Actually looks a bloody good lineup, although bare in mind that Tipoki has retired and Rico Gear is now utter garbage.[/b]

Yehh, i realise Rua's retired, but he wasn't exactly terrible for Munster last year. And i have a feeling that if you told a man with that much passion and character that he had a chance of representing his entire people against the All Blacks, he would jump out of retirement before you could finish your sentance. This was a guy that broke both his hands playing for his tribe in an amature friendly game infront of a crowd of about 100. Imagine him against the ABs?! he would go apeshit! Its guys like him that prevent the NZ Maori from turning into a joke.

And yeah shame about Rico.. oh well, Hosea's in lethal form, he can represent the Gears.

 

[MunsterMan]

I'm sure if you offered Rua the chance to play in this match he would take it in a heartbeat, but his knee really is shattered by the looks of his last year up here.

This match is a great idea btw!

 

[candybum]

So the NZRU had the finances for the JABs but not the Maori's? or was it because the Maori's didn't have a sponsor? I'm just lost at how they said we can't afford to put out a NZM team, but we will put out a JAB team.

 

[Nickdnz]

I think they put a JAB team out instead of a Maori All Blacks, due to quality players who wernt Maori, wern't getting a chance to represent themselfs.

 

[jawmalawm24]

The way Southland are playing at the moment I'd probably put Pehi Te Whare in there somewhere too or he could lead the haka like he did on this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd0kDxP04eI

What about Piri bubble bum is he still injured? Thomas Waldrom can still make some metres too he might be worth a shot. James McGougans props alright too I'd just through him in there.

There's quite a few kumara's you could chuck in there just a matter of who's injured and who would even play.

 

[danger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Sep 22 2009, 01:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I think they put a JAB team out instead of a Maori All Blacks, due to quality players who wernt Maori, wern't getting a chance to represent themselfs.[/b]

I think its more a case of capping players so they dont get poached. Once you play for the JABs thats it you cant play for anyone else. NZ Maori dont count as international, so guys like Riki Flutey can play for other countries.

If they really were using the JABs to test how well the guys were up to international standard, then they would have called up guys like Hosea Gear and Victor Vito to the ABs..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jawmalawm24 @ Sep 22 2009, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The way Southland are playing at the moment I'd probably put Pehi Te Whare in there somewhere too or he could lead the haka like he did on this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd0kDxP04eI

What about Piri bubble bum is he still injured? Thomas Waldrom can still make some metres too he might be worth a shot. James McGougans props alright too I'd just through him in there.

There's quite a few kumara's you could chuck in there just a matter of who's injured and who would even play.[/b]

Yeah there are quite a few questions over player selection, its more of a who to leave out rather then who to put in which is a good thing for the strength of Maori Rugby. Pehi Te Whare, Thomas Waldrom, James McGougan, Stephen Brett there are all worth a shout. Even Bryce Robbins, Jack Tarrant and Ryan Nichollas from the Japanese national team are up to it.

It would certainly be hard to choose a final 15. And im pretty sure everyone would want to play. There would be alot of pride at stake.

 

[William18]

The NZ Maori was really just a B team. There were no eligibility rules, really they were a bit of a joke from that sense. I don't think teams or players would choose to play for the NZ Maori. The NZRU could ban them from playing and they would much rather play for the All Blacks. The NZRU would also get ****** off if another country decided to play them. You would get an IPL/ICL situation and it would not be good for anyone. The NZ Maori always got hardly any interest when they played so I can not see a rebel team gaining much more.

 

[jawmalawm24]

They should go back to calling them the Nz Natives instead of Nz Maori because there's been heaps of players that probably had no Maori in them but played and there's nothing wrong with that and than you wouldn't have people arguing saying it's a team built on race which it isn't.

Anyway I think it'll be a good build up match for the November tour and maybe while the All Blacks are playing test they could have the Juniors or Maori playing games during the week against teams like Munster, Leinster, Leicster etc.

 

[danger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (William18 @ Sep 24 2009, 06:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The NZ Maori was really just a B team. There were no eligibility rules, really they were a bit of a joke from that sense. I don't think teams or players would choose to play for the NZ Maori. The NZRU could ban them from playing and they would much rather play for the All Blacks. The NZRU would also get ****** off if another country decided to play them. You would get an IPL/ICL situation and it would not be good for anyone. The NZ Maori always got hardly any interest when they played so I can not see a rebel team gaining much more.[/b]

Very common misconception here, they had eligibility rules, they just weren't as clear cut. The rule they were going by was that if you identified yourself as Maori, then you were allowed to play for them. It wasn't so much a case of players pretending to be Maori to get in to further their careers, it was players representing their people. It was a pride thing.

To play for the NZ Maori, you had to be able to show who your Iwi was, you had to be able to trace your ancestors back to which waka you came on. You had to be able to point to a map and say that's where i'm from, and that's where my marae is. You also needed credible Maori elders who could vouch for you and your family in that they were truly Maori.

When you got picked for the side, it wasnt a case of just turning up to the practices and then playing a game. There was alot of learning, it was pretty much full emersion into the Maori culture. a guy that was only there to further his career wouldnt stay for long. You stayed together as a team on marae around the country, there was and role modeling for younger Maori. To say it was a NZ B team is a gross oversight.

There were a few dodgy calls on players over the 100 years, but if a white guy grows up with all the brothers on the marae, is fluent in Maori language, is more at home in a Maori setting then a european one, then why not let him represent.

In the current system Riki Flutey, born and bread in Wairarapa is English. Lesley Vainikolo can play for england. Brendan Laney for Scotland, Bryce Robbins for Japan after living there a few years. Yet the system where they analyse players on a case by case basis based on how they identify themselves is the joke?

And why would the NZRU ban them from playing? They are not wanted by the NZRU because they cant afford it, if they find the money somewhere else good on them. Why would the NZRU care if another country played for them? they dont care if All Blacks play for the Barbarians and it is an almost identical premise. Think about it. I dont think you actually understand this at all. You wouldnt get an IPL/ICL situation at all? its a completely different situation.

You say NZ Maori had hardly any interest. I say you're ignorant. The entire country is not located inside your sphere of interest.

 

[Jethro]

Considering we play in the Pacific Nations Cup and the Churchill Cup (or whatever that thing is called) isn't there room for both the Maori and the Juniors? I would put the Maori into the Pac Nations Cup and send the Juniors north. Given we have fourteen premier league teams we surely have the numbers for three national teams.

 

[danger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jethro @ Sep 25 2009, 01:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Considering we play in the Pacific Nations Cup and the Churchill Cup (or whatever that thing is called) isn't there room for both the Maori and the Juniors? I would put the Maori into the Pac Nations Cup and send the Juniors north. Given we have fourteen premier league teams we surely have the numbers for three national teams.[/b]

There was never a problem of not having anyone to play. The problem was that the NZRU wasnt prepared to pay the money to have the team assembled.

 

[TRUE LEGND]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (William18 @ Sep 24 2009, 07:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The NZ Maori always got hardly any interest when they played so I can not see a rebel team gaining much more.[/b]

Hardly got interest???
where did you get that info from? I know for sure where im from theres alot of interest in NZ Maori rugby & throughout NZ

 

[TRUE LEGND]

Also forgot to mention my dad represented the Maori in the 70s so to my grand dad in the 50s. My Grand dad has always said the NZ Maori rugby team was formed back in the early days because Maori weren't allowed to represent NZ at the highest Level, they also had to over come the biased selection panel which over looked alot of great Maori players in there prime... This is how the NZ Maori team was formed

 

[fcukernaut]

Fantastic idea, the Maori do have a following and, this is based purely on my opinion but, everytime they came to Canada they were the hit of the competition, their games were always a sell out (around 10,000 in ontario, when they were in Edmonton they'd get 15-20,000). In comparison the Irish and English teams barely registered (5000 top out in Ontario) despite people being more readily able to associate with the home of their ancestors. You can't understand how excited people were when a star studed Maori line up came over in 2003 (Christian Cullen, Ormsby, Flavell, Ron Cribb, Carl Hayman off the top of my head) even though it was pretty much a terrential down pour that day (great for me wearing the Black and white face paint). I think this team would really attract fans especially if they went on longer tours playing some mid week games and playing up their tradition. Plus I don't see how or why the NZRU would oppose this. It gives more young players exposure at a high level. I see two problems by going independent, the first is that the NZRU will still be running the Junior All Blacks, and because of this the players won't be released to play for Maori because they are contractually obligated to play for the JAB's. That only creates a problem during the June test window though and doesn't stop them from running something during the November tests. On the other hand they still don't get "test" status so the NH clubs wouldn't have to release players. If the iRB could sanction them to be of test status you might have something. Still an interesting idea.

 

[wjd23104]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TRUE LEGND @ Nov 8 2009, 04:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Also forgot to mention my dad represented the Maori in the 70s so to my grand dad in the 50s. My Grand dad has always said the NZ Maori rugby team was formed back in the early days because Maori weren't allowed to represent NZ at the highest Level, they also had to over come the biased selection panel which over looked alot of great Maori players in there prime... This is how the NZ Maori team was formed[/b]

All well and good but in 2009 Maori players can be/and are selected for top teams including the ABs. The NZ Maori team is a relic and its Racist by definition. The Junior ABs are favoured by the NZRU because they get better sponsorship( thats why they changed the name from NZa to JABs ).

 

[TRUE LEGND]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wjd23104 @ Nov 9 2009, 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The NZ Maori team is a relic and its Racist by definition.[/b]

Would Australian Aboriginies Rugby League team count as Racist??? Or only NZ Maori

 

[C A Iversen]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TRUE LEGND @ Nov 9 2009, 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wjd23104 @ Nov 9 2009, 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The NZ Maori team is a relic and its Racist by definition.[/b]

Would Australian Aboriginies Rugby League team count as Racist??? Or only NZ Maori
[/b][/quote]

Just on a par with an English Caucasians only side, yeah.