A Political Thread

[ncurd]

I refuse to pay any mind to polls - I've been burned too many times over the last 4 years

It will take a massive effort to overturn an 80 seat majority, the main thing is early days the public are looking at Starmer and liking what they see (which is why Labour are still well behind him in popularity). There main job once the crisis is over is make sure they feel like a government in waiting. Reality is Corbyn never gave that impression (which is where lots of ideas get you).

I think one of the many telling things Starmer has done is he's gone on Nick Fearri's show once a month for 30 mins on LBC. Corbyn would only ever preach to his choir even though many shows had open invitations like James O'Brien who would of been broadly sympathetic.

Main things is from polls the right things do appear to be being done and they are not being hampered by the person in charge.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think this is a good point. The statue itself isn't racist, but it shows the type of person that country venerated as you said. However what this and many places elsewhere show is that Britain was and is very proud of it's colonial/empire era and many people still look back on it as a golden age for Britain and some still view it even as something to aspire to. The simple fact is that that era of British history is woefully taught and the curriculum regarding that era is very narrow and only really focuses on Britain's achievements and the point of view from the empire. As long as we keep pretending that the British Empire was this beacon of civilisation that was good for the world then we will continue to have these issues.

Personally it should go in a museum, but Britain as a whole needs to start learning it's own history properly and not from some nationalistic, patriotic, narrow view point.

It does make me wonder how other colonial powers teach their colonial history. It seems almost like some outside Britain seem to think the British empire was the be all and end all of all horrible imperialism at the time. Maybe in South America or Africa it would be different but it certainly seems that when it comes to imperial and colonial atrocities, ours are the only ones really highlighted.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Just another day at the office for BoJo....

Neil Ferguson telling the Commons Science Committee that the death toll was doubled by delaying lockdown for a week and the OECD saying that our economy will be the hardest hit out of any developed country.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

That is one thing I am happy my firm did sending us all to WFH 2 weeks before the lockdown was announced. It really has been a pig's ear the Government has made of announcing the lockdown so late considering what was going on in Italy and Spain gave them fair warning of what was to come.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Just spotted this on Beth Rugby's Twitter. Johnson saying that the US is a bastion of peace and freedom. Not how I'd describe it at the moment.

https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1270681556647129088?s=20

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Just another day at the office for BoJo....

Neil Ferguson telling the Commons Science Committee that the death toll was doubled by delaying lockdown for a week and the OECD saying that our economy will be the hardest hit out of any developed country.

Makes you proud to be British!

Seriously though, this has all just been a jolly good game of prime minister for Johnson. He is just one part of the problem, namely that a tiny "elite" from Harrow and Eton (and to a lesser extent the Edinburgh elite) are playing pass the parcel with the fate of this country and we are all letting it happen. These arseholes are told from the day they are born that they are better than everyone else and born to lead. Democracy but only within a select group of candidates. Cameron was notorious for thinking he was born to lead but at least could make an attempt at appearing like a statesman whilst he did it. Johnson is just a ******* mess, the sort of guy who had such a horrendous night out drinking and harassing the peasants that he never recovered and is cursed to look like he did the next morning for the rest of eternity. How can a man who is that incapable of looking after his own hair be trusted with looking after a country?

Deaths of the peasants mean nothing to these people apart from how it damages their ego. The other Tories will be guffawing at how careless Johnson was to lose a few thousand to Covid and how Cameron was able to split the country with 2 toxic referendums and then dump them both with someone else.

Just spotted this on Beth Rugby's Twitter. Johnson saying that the US is a bastion of peace and freedom. Not how I'd describe it at the moment.

https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1270681556647129088?s=20

Clearly I spend too long on here as I thought you had just mistyped Bath Rugby... That or you were trying to impersonate a Kiwi.

 

[ncurd]

Just spotted this on Beth Rugby's Twitter. Johnson saying that the US is a bastion of peace and freedom. Not how I'd describe it at the moment.

https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1270681556647129088?s=20

Yup said it at PMQs I suppose he was born in New York

 

[RedruthRFC]

Just another day at the office for BoJo....

Neil Ferguson telling the Commons Science Committee that the death toll was doubled by delaying lockdown for a week and the OECD saying that our economy will be the hardest hit out of any developed country.

It seemed apparent long before lockdown to me that the pay back for keeping the economy going in the short term was always going to be far too high to be worthwhile. Sure enough, here we are.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Clearly I spend too long on here as I thought you had just mistyped Bath Rugby... That or you were trying to impersonate a Kiwi.

You mean you thought I'd met up with some friends, gone to the rugby and then on to to a crowded pub and a curry afterwards? EDIT: Oops, just realised I got my Rigbys and Rugbys muddled up!

I will be truly amazed if Johnson leads the Tories into the next election. He's gone from divisive to toxic.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Could become the iconic moment of the protests in the USA.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Duplicate

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Could become the iconic moment of the protests in the USA.

Especially when you look at how careful and caressing the cop was being with him. Imagine that reversed and it was a black guy going ballistic and getting in the faces of a bunch of white people. Credit to them for all staying calm but personally I really wanted someone to floor him. I think it's deemed reasonable self defence to hit someone who invades your personal space in that way.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Yup said it at PMQs I suppose he was born in New York

Not a city with a great recent track record in breeding world leaders.

 

[McTallshort]

 

[User1245]

George Floyd's murder was also unfair, there's a lot about the situation that is unfair. Can you really justify using this argument when the effect would be to further persecute minorities.

Either you believe these protests weren't necessary, in which can all I can do is agree to disagree with you on the topic and know I have the correct opinion, or you think they should have waited until mass gatherings were allowed. The problem with the latter is that protests 6-9 months down the line wouldn't have the same impact, I can't speak for the protestors but I don't think the extreme anger and pain that drove these protests could be expressed in the same way if they waited until the beginning of 2021. And in addition to that, an election would have come and gone in the US in that time, Trump has shown no empathy in my opinion and had protesters waited he'd have gotten off too lightly.

I don't think COVID should be taken lightly and I'd have disagreed with protests in New York City in March but that's about it as far as the US is concerned, with the world a lot more educated on this virus with most wearing masks and with outdoor protests very unlikely to see a devastating surge. I think your criticisms are extremely poorly thought out and are missing the bigger picture.

Just like when I left Christianity and became atheist by following the evidence, despite what people profess they "know" or how many other people "know" the same thing it doesn't matter until I see some evidence.

You've wrapped George Floyd, BLM/politics, and public health into one neat package like they're related. Those are 3 separate issues.

George Floyd:

Like I said, one of the most disturbing things I've seen was that video. I had trouble sleeping the night I saw it. Horrid, cowardly act if he did die from asphyxiation as now there's two autopsies saying different things just to muddy the water even more.

Medical advice on gatherings:

If expert medical advice is based on science, then the reason for stopping gatherings shouldn't change the advice. That is BS and you know it. We have trusted these experts to give us advice based on the science and evidence, and they've now betrayed that trust. People themselves can decide what they do with the facts they present us.

I personally believe stopping any peaceful protest is unconstitutional in the USA so I supported the peaceful protests after George was killed as I supported the peaceful protests against the stay at home orders. Even in a pandemic you can't just decide to take away Constitutional rights.

BLM/politics:

The original George Floyd protests had my sympathy and support. Residents of the city were rightly voicing their grievances about what happened in their city.

...And then it grew legs fuelled by bad actors namely BLM and Antifa. It was first about police brutality, then it became about the "epidemic" of unarmed blacks being killed, and then riots stared and now eventually 'defund the police'. George's own family condemned the violence and destruction but the "cause" had already been hijacked so they their requests were ignored.

I highly doubt what BLM are doing is social justice driven and I think it is instead politically driven exactly because of what you just mentioned: It's an election year and they want Trump out. This is the "bigger picture".

The inconvienent truth is the data doesn't back up their claims and there is a large portion of Black people do not agree with their oppression narrative. Surely that would make most reasonable people stop and think what's going on. They don't have full support of the people they've elected themselves to represent AND the data doesn't match?

Police killings (both justified and not) has been trending down under Trumps administration.

Killings of unarmed people of all races has also been on a downward trend. Very good news but it can't be weaponised against their sworn enemy so you don't hear about it.

And then the supposed reason for the nation-wide protest outside of Minneapolis, the epidemic of unarmed Black people being killed (both justified and not) is on a very sharp downward trend. Also note how Blacks only represent 32.5% of unarmed killings in 2019.

Source: https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Just like when I left Christianity and became atheist by following the evidence, despite what people profess they "know" or how many other people "know" the same thing it doesn't matter until I see some evidence.

You've wrapped George Floyd, BLM/politics, and public health into one neat package like they're related. Those are 3 separate issues.

George Floyd:

Like I said, one of the most disturbing things I've seen was that video. I had trouble sleeping the night I saw it. Horrid, cowardly act if he did die from asphyxiation as now there's two autopsies saying different things just to muddy the water even more.

Medical advice on gatherings:

If expert medical advice is based on science, then the reason for stopping gatherings shouldn't change the advice. That is BS and you know it. We have trusted these experts to give us advice based on the science and evidence, and they've now betrayed that trust. People themselves can decide what they do with the facts they present us.

I personally believe stopping any peaceful protest is unconstitutional in the USA so I supported the peaceful protests after George was killed as I supported the peaceful protests against the stay at home orders. Even in a pandemic you can't just decide to take away Constitutional rights.

BLM/politics:

The original George Floyd protests had my sympathy and support. Residents of the city were rightly voicing their grievances about what happened in their city.

...And then it grew legs fuelled by bad actors namely BLM and Antifa. It was first about police brutality, then it became about the "epidemic" of unarmed blacks being killed, and then riots stared and now eventually 'defund the police'. George's own family condemned the violence and destruction but the "cause" had already been hijacked so they their requests were ignored.

I highly doubt what BLM are doing is social justice driven and I think it is instead politically driven exactly because of what you just mentioned: It's an election year and they want Trump out. This is the "bigger picture".

The inconvienent truth is the data doesn't back up their claims and there is a large portion of Black people do not agree with their oppression narrative. Surely that would make most reasonable people stop and think what's going on. They don't have full support of the people they've elected themselves to represent AND the data doesn't match?

Police killings (both justified and not) has been trending down under Trumps administration.

Killings of unarmed people of all races has also been on a downward trend. Very good news but it can't be weaponised against their sworn enemy so you don't hear about it.

And then the supposed reason for the nation-wide protest outside of Minneapolis, the epidemic of unarmed Black people being killed (both justified and not) is on a very sharp downward trend. Also note how Blacks only represent 32.5% of unarmed killings in 2019.

Source: https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

Well researched but I think you continue to display a disconnect from reality, the graphs aren't much to do about anything regarding the continued protests, Floyd's death wasn't Trump's fault and those numbers aren't his achievement.

If you're looking for evidence that these protests are needed, how about the countless videos of police brutality that have done the rounds since the murder? What about Trump showing a total disconnect with the protests, praising the police and failing to condemn the brutality, and then trying to pull a 180 when it wouldn't go away in a fairly crass manner. ("A great day for George Floyd" when nothing substantial has changed) Why should a graph showing a coincidental drop in police killings of black people during the Trump administration take away from that?

In addition to this you've cherry picked your stats

All Police Killings:



Police Killings of non-white people:



Both trending upward. Focusing on the negative aspects of the protests will allow this to slide under the radar, campaigns for the "Hands up Act" and other such actions are required.

My point on the necessity of the protests doesn't change. I don't support continued violence or looting but equally similar actions have forced change in the past in the States and I agree with the point already made that sometimes you need more than a peaceful protest to invoke change when things have been stagnant for so long.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53004628

Staggeringly tone deaf. Carrying out a campaign rally in the city where one of the worst massacres of black people in US history happened on the day African Americans celebrate the end of slavery...

 

[ncurd]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53004628

Staggeringly tone deaf. Carrying out a campaign rally in the city where one of the worst massacres of black people in US history happened on the day African Americans celebrate the end of slavery...

I wouldn't say it was tone deaf at all, its alla parrt of his shock tactics playbook he's been doing since day 1. Provoke huge outrage and gee up the base our only hope is moderates turning coat or turning up and voting for Biden.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I think you continue to display a disconnect from reality

You know i like you, but this is as condescending as ***** and you've presented no evidence to support such claim.

In addition to this you've cherry picked your stats

No he did not. This was, as he mentioned, about unarmed black people being killed by the police. Specific problems require specific solutions and the first thing you need to do is to get the diagnose right, and in order to do that you need the right info.
What you did by unfiltering to "correct" what you labeled as cherry-picking was to flooding and burying the relevant evidence in a sea of white noise that distort the results.

If you're looking for evidence that these protests are needed

They are not. This is a sanitary issue. We are in the middle of a global pandemic. And yes, what happened is a tragegy, period. No buts. You do have to weight the consequences thou, and in order to do that you have consider the following facts

1- Global pandemic
2- Highest unemployment in the last 25 years
3- Highest number of people requesting benefits in recorded history
4- No free healthcase

I dont think you need to be a neurosurgeon or a nasa engineer to see how adding high concentrations of people to those 4 is a recipe for (an even worse) disaster.

 

[Reiser99]

Conservatives aren't even trying to hide their corruption anymore.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53007018