A Political Thread

[General Melchett]

Leading Brexiteer Iain Duncan Smith gets a knighthood. No doubt a bribe for backing Cockwomble's deal.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

If the vid is anything to go by then Trump will win another 4 years because the Democrats have not answered the question of providing cultural security to those voters in the swing states. This is a major failing of the social democrats around the world to recognise and remedy.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

"Hmm the left is a bit wishy washy so I'll vote for the guys that actively hate me. At least they're committed."

 

[Bada-Bing!]

That's the sad thing really that those who did not vote Labour felt they couldn't and voted Tory instead because they felt Labour just did not understand them on their cultural insecurity- call it racism if you will. But until Labour addresses this and indeed all social democratic parties, the foreseeable future is them not being in power.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Again:
So they vote for the people that actively despise them? Where's the logic in that?

 

[Reiser99]

This is a perfect example of why the left will lose again. While it seems like a good idea to call them racist/xenophobic etc... all it does is reinforce their beliefs. If the left wants to win it needs to engage with these people to address their concerns, but show them that it can be done in a way that benefits all. Just calling them names and hoping they realise they're wrong will not work. You may disagree with their beliefs, but insulting them like this just brings you down to their level.

 

[Reiser99]

Again:
So they vote for the people that actively despise them? Where's the logic in that?

The logic is that the Conservatives had a better campaign and more media support. I can't find numbers, but I imagine many of the right wing papers that have pushed the immigration/brexit agenda for years are read by many people in the north. They believed that Conservatives were most likely to give them what they wanted on a few issues, mainly Brexit and immigration. They didn't trust that Labour and Corbyn could actually deliver what they promised, so in their heads they went for practicality over fantasy.

Problem is a lot of voting in this country is based on voting for the lesser of two evils or tactical voting to keep out the party you don't want. I imagine many people who voted Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dem did so with a heavy heart this time around. People aren't voting for who they like, but who will screw them over the least and this time they believed they would be more screwed under Corbyn than Johnson. I personally disagree, but that's how the vote happened.

Until we get electoral reform to makes things more representative this narrative will continue because in people's minds only 2 parties have a shot at winning, so vote for the one you hate the least.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Again:
So they vote for the people that actively despise them? Where's the logic in that?

because the Centre right are speaking to them about their cultural insecurities or perceive Johnson and co as trying to address them. They'd rather vote for a party that they perceive that is than Labour or social democratic parties that have ignored this very important facet, which is more important to them than economic security.

All we have right now is polarization as the left just do not get why their base, which has become so structurally unsound, is not voting for them any more and talk down to this base.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

So people want the center left to charge more in taxes but not try to solve any of society's ills? Their donor base would disappear in a second. The main reason that I (and most of the educated upper middle class) continue to vote Democrat is because they try to make the country a better place.

if they start appeasing they racists why should I continue to donate and vote Democrat (I'm registered green but when push comes to shove I vote blue)? If my options are two overtly racist parties I'd much rather vote republican, at least I know how **** they are going to be.

 

[General Melchett]

This is a perfect example of why the left will lose again. While it seems like a good idea to call them racist/xenophobic etc... all it does is reinforce their beliefs. If the left wants to win it needs to engage with these people to address their concerns, but show them that it can be done in a way that benefits all. Just calling them names and hoping they realise they're wrong will not work. You may disagree with their beliefs, but insulting them like this just brings you down to their level.

I agree that the name calling won't work (although this is more likely to come from commentators/pundits rather than official party sources) but it has to be said that many of the Trump supporters' so called 'concerns' have no validity whatsoever in this day and age. Blaming the country's problems on foreigners and using right wing fuelled white supremacy as a vehicle to ramp up racist abuse towards people of a different ethnicity is unacceptable. They are essentially being goaded by irresponsible right wing politicians into committing what would be considered hate crimes in the UK. The democrats should be learning from other countries that have had the same issues and overcome them through various measures with a view to creating a more inclusive and tolerant society. I suspect a lot of these measures are at the grass roots and will take a generation or two to have any impact. Hate crime legislation would also be welcome but I suspect this falls into the same bracket as gun control i.e. not going to happen.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

So people want the center left to charge more in taxes but not try to solve any of society's ills? Their donor base would disappear in a second. The main reason that I (and most of the educated upper middle class) continue to vote Democrat is because they try to make the country a better place.

if they start appeasing they racists why should I continue to donate and vote Democrat (I'm registered green but when push comes to shove I vote blue)? If my options are two overtly racist parties I'd much rather vote republican, at least I know how **** they are going to be.

But are the Democrats speaking to their voter base I.e. blue collar white working class voters in the swing states, and reassuring them about their cultural identity? Is Biden that man? As Warren, Sanders (is he still running post heart problems) sure as hell won't win. Trump seems to be the only addressing this and speaking to them/understanding them on this issue. Doesn't make him right and if US election follows Uk as it did back In 2016, following Brexit, then we are heading for 4 more years of Trump and the centre left shaking their heads in disbelief again in disbelief in November 2020.

 

[ncurd]

The center left know what their problems were in November 2020 and it starts with C and they'd been saying it for years.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

But are the Democrats speaking to their voter base I.e. blue collar white working class voters in the swing states, and reassuring them about their cultural identity? Is Biden that man? As Warren, Sanders (is he still running post heart problems) sure as hell won't win. Trump seems to be the only addressing this and speaking to them/understanding them on this issue. Doesn't make him right and if US election follows Uk as it did back In 2016, following Brexit, then we are heading for 4 more years of Trump and the centre left shaking their heads in disbelief again in disbelief in November 2020.

I disagree that Democrats need to target the white working class. There's a certain amount of people who vote Democrat no matter what.

the democrats lose when voter turnout is low. The groups least likely to vote are extreme poor, minorities, and young people. The first two groups unfortunately have a huge overlap.

get those people to vote Democrats win Pennsylvania and the rust belt states.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I disagree that Democrats need to target the white working class. There's a certain amount of people who vote Democrat no matter what.

the democrats lose when voter turnout is low. The groups least likely to vote are extreme poor, minorities, and young people. The first two groups unfortunately have a huge overlap.

get those people to vote Democrats win Pennsylvania and the rust belt states.

Of course, like here US is a two party system and will have their hard core support, no matter what. But I am talking about the swing voters within those white working class voters In those rust belt states/swing states like Pennsylvania. The ones where Trump won by wafer thin margins.

How much have democrats changed their message since 2016 when Hilary couldn't answer those questions on cultural identity that Trump was "trying to" in his own appalling way with his build the Wall/ make America Great again messages etc. How can the Democrats address this in time for next year? I am not sure they can now apart from impeaching the orange buffoon and we know he'll just turn that around and is already playing the victim card.

 

[McTallshort]

Again:
So they vote for the people that actively despise them? Where's the logic in that?

What makes you think the tories despise them more than Labour?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

"The Prime Minister blasted "blue collar" men and claimed many were criminals - without offering any evidence.

He said the "modern British male is useless", adding: "If he is blue collar, he is likely to be drunk, criminal, aimless, feckless and hopeless"

"Boris Johnson described the children of single mothers as "ill-raised, ignorant, aggressive and illegitimate" in a newly unearthed article which Labour has claimed shows the prime minister's "dark-age" attitudes towards women."


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Credit?wprov=sfla1 -----> Criticism

 

[Bada-Bing!]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-to-open-up-civil-unions-register-partnership

A big up for Civil partnerships for cohabitating heterosexual couples, where the first lot happened today.

 

[ncurd]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-to-open-up-civil-unions-register-partnership

A big up for Civil partnerships for cohabitating heterosexual couples, where the first lot happened today.

Yup shame they had to be legally enforced to enact it due to equality laws ah the joys a proper independent judiciary that'll be gone in the future...

Have some friends who have been in a committed relationship for almost as long as I've been alive and have been desperate for this for years, they just want the legal protections and have fundamental objections to the term marriage. They'll finally get those and if they want a party to celebrate I'm looking forward to it. They were talking about getting married in secret and not telling anyone they were.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...members-suggests-keir-starmer-is-first-choice

Early poll suggesting Starmer is the front runner for the Labour leadership, which is welcome news.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Why was this caller given 5 minutes of airtime on LBC?? Top marks though for sounding serious for them though.