A Political Thread

[McTallshort]

It's funny how a couple of precision strikes on a few empty buildings is enough to save face and keep your population on side. A bit like North Korea firing rockets into the sea as a way of flexing their muscles. Although it's serious stuff I can't help but think it's also a bit pathetic.

Tehran are reporting huge American casualties which would go with your suggestion of a face saving exercise.

There is no doubt that the death of the head of their intelligence and overseas operations will really hurt Iran. Soleimani was excellent at what he was tasked to do which was increase Iranian influence and power in the region by any means necessary. Whoever replaces them will have a monster pair of shoes to fill and many think there is no one of his calibre available which is probably why the Americans decided to top him.

 

[General Melchett]

Canadian PM just confirmed the Ukrainian plane was shot down by an Iranian missile. So Manchild's attempt to impress his base by taking out Soleimani in order to get re elected next year looks to have come at a cost. 176 innocent people dead as a result.

 

[User1245]

Tehran are reporting huge American casualties which would go with your suggestion of a face saving exercise.

There is no doubt that the death of the head of their intelligence and overseas operations will really hurt Iran. Soleimani was excellent at what he was tasked to do which was increase Iranian influence and power in the region by any means necessary. Whoever replaces them will have a monster pair of shoes to fill and many think there is no one of his calibre available which is probably why the Americans decided to top him.

To add to this vacuum, apparently there was already factional fighting within the regime. Soleimani's death will be a huge blow to the reigning theocrats.

Canadian PM just confirmed the Ukrainian plane was shot down by an Iranian missile. So Manchild's attempt to impress his base by taking out Soleimani in order to get re elected next year looks to have come at a cost. 176 innocent people dead as a result.

Trump Derangement Syndrome on full display right there. Beyond delusional and twisted.

How about blaming the people who shot down their own citizens. The vast majority of the people on the plane were Iranians or dual nationality Iranians. No US citizens. Just more of the same from the terrorist regime who killed 1500 of its citizens last year.

 

[General Melchett]

To add to this vacuum, apparently there was already factional fighting within the regime. Soleimani's death will be a huge blow to the reigning theocrats.



Trump Derangement Syndrome on full display right there. Beyond delusional and twisted.

How about blaming the people who shot down their own citizens. The vast majority of the people on the plane were Iranians or dual nationality Iranians. No US citizens. Just more of the same from the terrorist regime who killed 1500 of its citizens last year.

Accidental or not this would not have happened if the US didn't stoke the hornet's nest by taking out Soleimani. Very similar to the Malaysian plane that was shot down because of Putin providing surface to air missiles to his proxy rebels in Ukraine. My point is that actions have consequences, something you and two others who disliked my post clearly missed or can't comprehend.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Accidental or not this would not have happened if the US didn't stoke the hornet's nest by taking out Soleimani. Very similar to the Malaysian plane that was shot down because of Putin providing surface to air missiles to his proxy rebels in Ukraine. My point is that actions have consequences, something you and two others who disliked my post clearly missed or can't comprehend.

Soleimani was an evil mofo. He was a terrorist. No great woe that he is dead.

That said, the USA should probably have not gone about the way they did. However, his death has, long term, probably saved more lives that it cost.

The consequences of his actions were

1. The death of a terrorist and someone who has frequently and routinely directed Iranian sponsored militias in attacks against and the deaths of both civilians and western soldiers. Those attacks have killed thousands of people and would likely have continued to grow. There is no-one with the expertise of soleimani in Iran and thus there operations are likely to suffer drastically.

2. The Iranians intentionally launch harmless missile strikes against Iraqi bases, giving 6 hours notice and not harming or injuring a single soldier. A clear indication of an attempt to save face, but not provoke the USA.

3. The Iranians "accidentally" shoot down a passenger plane. A couple hundred people's lives a cut short, the one great tragedy from this series of events (with the exception of those who may have been caught up in the initial strike.)

4. All sides saying they are willing to go to the table.



The situation has been escalating for years, there was going to be a flashpoint eventually that many believed would lead to a lot more bloodshed than this has. As long as this is now contained and controlled, we could look back in 20 years and see this as another example of "if you hate the man, you must hate all he does" when this is somewhat nonsensical.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Does the whole Harry and Meghan saga just show the absolute stupidity of having a Royal family?

Front page news of the Times, which has pushed the whole plane getting shot down to page 11 today. Shows even the Times's priorities are all wrong! Rant over.

 

[McTallshort]

Accidental or not this would not have happened if the US didn't stoke the hornet's nest by taking out Soleimani. Very similar to the Malaysian plane that was shot down because of Putin providing surface to air missiles to his proxy rebels in Ukraine. My point is that actions have consequences, something you and two others who disliked my post clearly missed or can't comprehend.

Taking out Soleimani has not stoked up a hornets nest, the nest was already stoked and had been for years. Soleimani has been the key Iranian player since the early 00s and is responsible for many things including the Shia insurgency against British forces in Southern Iraq, keeping Assad in power, mining of tankers in the gulf and the proxy war against Saudi Arabia. Killing him will have crippled the Iranian power grab in the middle east.

The Iranians shot down a passenger plane because they are either stupid or brutal, either way to blame the Americans for it is simply stupid.

 

[General Melchett]

Soleimani was an evil mofo. He was a terrorist. No great woe that he is dead.

That said, the USA should probably have not gone about the way they did. However, his death has, long term, probably saved more lives that it cost.

The consequences of his actions were

1. The death of a terrorist and someone who has frequently and routinely directed Iranian sponsored militias in attacks against and the deaths of both civilians and western soldiers. Those attacks have killed thousands of people and would likely have continued to grow. There is no-one with the expertise of soleimani in Iran and thus there operations are likely to suffer drastically.

2. The Iranians intentionally launch harmless missile strikes against Iraqi bases, giving 6 hours notice and not harming or injuring a single soldier. A clear indication of an attempt to save face, but not provoke the USA.

3. The Iranians "accidentally" shoot down a passenger plane. A couple hundred people's lives a cut short, the one great tragedy from this series of events (with the exception of those who may have been caught up in the initial strike.)

4. All sides saying they are willing to go to the table.



The situation has been escalating for years, there was going to be a flashpoint eventually that many believed would lead to a lot more bloodshed than this has. As long as this is now contained and controlled, we could look back in 20 years and see this as another example of "if you hate the man, you must hate all he does" when this is somewhat nonsensical.

Taking out Soleimani has not stoked up a hornets nest, the nest was already stoked and had been for years. Soleimani has been the key Iranian player since the early 00s and is responsible for many things including the Shia insurgency against British forces in Southern Iraq, keeping Assad in power, mining of tankers in the gulf and the proxy war against Saudi Arabia. Killing him will have crippled the Iranian power grab in the middle east.

The Iranians shot down a passenger plane because they are either stupid or brutal, either way to blame the Americans for it is simply stupid.

Both your posts are well articulated. I still take the view that the US must to take a large chunk of responsibility for their actions during the whole WMD smokescreen back in the 90's. This is still bearing consequences to this day and will continue to do so for years to come. My point was more in relation to the timing of this assassination i.e. a year before the election and as the President is facing impeachment pressure (not to mention giving Netanyahu a much needed boost as he tries to overcome his own issues and retain power in Israel). Why not take him out earlier. It is interesting how the US don't push so hard for regime change in countries where this is no oil up for grabs.

Maybe it's just me but to issue dislikes because you disagree with someone's viewpoint is very poor in my book. I rarely dislike posts and only do so when someone is offensive, rude or disrespectful.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-51063149

Trump claiming he should have got the nobel peace prize for solving the Ethiopia - Eritrea conflict despite the USA doing basically nothing at all. Can this stupid fucker just get impeached now? Right wingers go on about "Trump derangement syndrome" yet forget about Trumps derangement when he makes idiotic comments like this. Maybe people have "Trump derangement syndrome" because Trump is a stupid fucker with an ego the size of a planet and skin as thin as tracing paper, who has a habit of lying repeatedly. Apparently in his speech about the Iran strike he told a lie or misleading statement every 30 seconds...

For all Trump supporters ask yourself this, is Obama came out with even half the **** Trump has, how much would you be foaming at the mouth?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

There's a certain irony about complaining about not getting the Nobel peace prize on the same day that a US drone strike killed and injured 60 civilians in Afghanistan.
Fair play the strike also took out whoever it was that they were targeting but the "collateral damage" in these attacks is absolutely staggering.
That's the equivalent of a bus load of innocent people who were just going about their day that are now dead or injured through absolutely no fault of their own.

 

[Gavin]

There's a certain irony about complaining about not getting the Nobel peace prize on the same day that a US drone strike killed and injured 60 civilians in Afghanistan.
Fair play the strike also took out whoever it was that they were targeting but the "collateral damage" in these attacks is absolutely staggering.
That's the equivalent of a bus load of innocent people who were just going about their day that are now dead or injured through absolutely no fault of their own.

The amount of innocent people who have died at the hands of US drone strikes is unbelievable.

How is an accidental Iranian missile hitting a passenger plane any different to US strikes?

 

[User1245]

I agree that the amount of collateral damage with drone strikes is unacceptable. The USA's desire to protect it's own personnel from harm is increasing the likelihood of civilian casualties by too much. If they care so much about taking out of fringe terror leader then do a boots on the ground sting operation with your elite force.

Yes reports on civilian casualties are often inflated or they report militia as civilians but it doesn't really matter because one civilian casualty is already too much and especially when this keeps happening.

I would like to hear the rational justification for the use of this kind of technology in cases like these because it doesn't seem to be accurate enough.

 

[McTallshort]

Both your posts are well articulated. I still take the view that the US must to take a large chunk of responsibility for their actions during the whole WMD smokescreen back in the 90's. This is still bearing consequences to this day and will continue to do so for years to come. My point was more in relation to the timing of this assassination i.e. a year before the election and as the President is facing impeachment pressure (not to mention giving Netanyahu a much needed boost as he tries to overcome his own issues and retain power in Israel). Why not take him out earlier. It is interesting how the US don't push so hard for regime change in countries where this is no oil up for grabs.

Maybe it's just me but to issue dislikes because you disagree with someone's viewpoint is very poor in my book. I rarely dislike posts and only do so when someone is offensive, rude or disrespectful.

What makes you think they had the chance to assassinate him before?

 

[General Melchett]

What makes you think they had the chance to assassinate him before?

What makes you think they didn't?

 

[User1245]

So if the videos circulating of the plane being shot down are real, why were people filming it before it was hit?

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

So if the videos circulating of the plane being shot down are real, why were people filming it before it was hit?

They saw a flashing light flying through the sky super fast?

 

[McTallshort]

What makes you think they didn't?

Because they would have done it.

 

[General Melchett]

Does the whole Harry and Meghan saga just show the absolute stupidity of having a Royal family?

Front page news of the Times, which has pushed the whole plane getting shot down to page 11 today. Shows even the Times's priorities are all wrong! Rant over.

For me the issue is more about being force fed information about them (particularly Harry & Megan) in the news. In my opinion it's not news. Have a Royal family channel on Sky for those who want to keep tabs on them but don't force it down our throats in the news unless it is actually newsworthy. Clearly the media and the family have an understanding, we'll give you access if you give us coverage and the family don't like it when it gets too invasive or excessive.

They are essentially entitled ultra A list celebrities and I don't subscribe to the Royal family moving with the times by welcoming this sweet mixed race girl next door type. She is a multi millionaire elite and from what I hear extremely high maintenance.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

So if the videos circulating of the plane being shot down are real, why were people filming it before it was hit?

Iranians have confirmed they did it.

 

[General Melchett]

Accepting responsibility is a start but there are still many questions to be answered. Why was Iranian airspace still open during a period of high tension and with Iranian air defence systems on high alert? Why didn't Iran and particularly the US issue warnings to avoid Iranian airspace during this time?