A Political Thread

[Which Tyler]

Did anyone watch this?
Past my bedtime, unfortunately, but a lot of people raging on social media.

Recorded - not sure when I'll get the chance to sit dowen and watch it - really needed to be before the election (partly so that it was further from Christmas)

 

[Reiser99]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50834286

Thornberry first to throw her hat into the ring.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Trump impeached X 2

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Trump impeached X 2

At least he goes down in history as the third President to be impeached. And he'll hate to be a member of that mini club. Still, it's a foregone conclusion that he'll be acquitted in the Senate.

 

[McTallshort]

Not his biggest fan but its hard to argue with this.

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1207274715028557826

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Labour were screwed regardless, on the Brexit front.
Tories were fine because their base is mostly leave, so they could push that hard.
Lib dems were fine because their base is mostly remain, so they could push that hard.
Labour had half remain half leave - whichever way they pushed they would alienate half of their base.
Agree that sitting on the fence was a bad move though - especially for so long. They should have pushed for a 2nd referendum years ago - and committed to it, then having the time to try and convince their leaver base that the best thing to do is work out what kind of deal we could get and then vote on whether it's worth it or not.
Committing to a 2nd referendum weeks before the election just ****** everyone off and pushed people towards BXP/Conservatives.


Also Tony Blair is a war criminal, **** him.

 

[McTallshort]

Labour were screwed regardless, on the Brexit front.
Tories were fine because their base is mostly leave, so they could push that hard.
Lib dems were fine because their base is mostly remain, so they could push that hard.
Labour had half remain half leave - whichever way they pushed they would alienate half of their base.
Agree that sitting on the fence was a bad move though - especially for so long. They should have pushed for a 2nd referendum years ago - and committed to it, then having the time to try and convince their leaver base that the best thing to do is work out what kind of deal we could get and then vote on whether it's worth it or not.
Committing to a 2nd referendum weeks before the election just ****** everyone off and pushed people towards BXP/Conservatives.


Also Tony Blair is a war criminal, **** him.

Well if the Labour party think **** him then they are going to be in opposition for a very long time.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Am I the Labour Party now?

Realistically, though, everyone should think **** him. He's a literal war criminal.

 

[McTallshort]

Am I the Labour Party now?

Realistically, though, everyone should think **** him. He's a literal war criminal.

And the only electable Labour have had in 40 years

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Yep, despite the massive mistake Blair made on Iraq and it was big, he is the only Labour PM to win three successive elections In our generation. Labour don't have to have Blair mark 2, but still need to learn how he won those elections if they are going to become anything credible going forward. Continually bashing him on Iraq and totally ignoring his successes isn't doing the Labour Party any good.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

still need to learn how he won those elections

Anyway, I'm not talking about his comments on this election etc.
Just pointing out that he's a war criminal. By all means listen to what he says, but never forget the tsunami of blood he has on his hands.

 

[ncurd]

Suggest you look at opinion polling of Blair/Labour before the Scum backed him. Its wrongly attributed they won him the election more they saw which way the win was blowing and hitched up. They relentlessly tried to discredit him before that.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Anyway, I'm not talking about his comments on this election etc.
Just pointing out that he's a war criminal. By all means listen to what he says, but never forget the tsunami of blood he has on his hands.

Labour have issues and not just this recent defeat. It's clear that Iraq is still in the heads of members and one of the reasons for the lurch to the left. Not saying it should be forgotten but how they move forward from it is critical now if Labour are ever going to get back into power. Two successive leaders who have been so far removed from Blair and roundly rejected tells you everything.

Corbyn's big problem was he wanted the Tories to own Brexit and then try and ride whatever wave he thought would follow into power to enforce his own socialist agenda. I said 3 years ago on this forum I was absolutely astounded that he didn't pipe up at the Labour conference when members were discussing the main issues facing the country. Not one of the 5 topics was on Brexit.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Whatever you think of Blair, he had one trait that any leader now needs. He was media savvy, slick and comfortable in the spotlight as was Cameron. Johnson sort of is, Brown wasn't, May wasn't, Ed Miliband wasn't and Corbyn isn't. It's shallow, but it matters. Massively, almost certainly too much, but that's the world we live in.

Corbyn was an outright disaster on so many fronts which his parliamentary party recognised from the word go. The leadership's seeming surprise that Brexit turned out to be a big factor was truly mind boggling.

And with friends like Len McCluskey who needs enemies?

McCluskey on 13th December......"Labour made mistakes. Firstly the incontinent rush of policies which appeared to offer everything to everyone immediately and thereby strained voter credulity as well as obscuring the party's sense of priorities".

Fair enough and utterly consistent with his 19th November view.......

"All of these things add up to an unbelievable offer that Labour is going to be making, one that will transform our society. When you look at Labour's programme - oh my god. You would think that we would end up with a massive landslide, because it speaks for so many people".

 

[Which Tyler]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...speech-voter-id-polling-station-a9253386.html


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...speech-voter-id-polling-station-a9253386.html

Boris Johnson to 'stop tens of thousands voting' by making photo ID mandatory at polling stations

Pilots of scheme saw hundreds of voters without photographic ID turned away from polling stations

Boris Johnson has confirmed plans to press ahead with new requirements for photographic ID at polling stations, in the face of accusations that the move is designed to suppress voting by young people and disadvantaged groups.

The prime minister faced immediate calls to ditch the "dangerous" proposal from the Electoral Reform Society, which warned: "Make no mistake – these plans will leave tens of thousands of legitimate voters voiceless."

Campaigners accused the PM of taking action on an "imaginary" problem while ignoring more serious threats to British democracy, such as anonymous political ads, dodgy donations and fake news.

Meanwhile, the 15-year limit on expats voting in general elections is to be lifted, allowing UK citizens living abroad to continue casting their ballots for the rest of their lives.

Traditionally this has been seen as a way of boosting the Conservative vote, though Mr Johnson risks a backlash from the million-plus UK citizens in the EU who overwhelmingly supported Remain in the 2016 referendum but were denied a vote.

Article Continues...

 

[duncanb]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...speech-voter-id-polling-station-a9253386.html


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...speech-voter-id-polling-station-a9253386.html

Fail to see issue,
France
Germany
Sweden
Norway
Holland
even in Northern Ireland you need ID .
The vast majority who may not vote would be people who failed by their own omission to register to vote.
Sure our posters from the Republic of Ireland can say are thousands disenfranchised as they have to produce if asked ID.
the list of countries not required to produce ID is far smaller than those that do.
For God's sake I need to produce photo ID to collect a parcel from post office, and I'm not disenfranchised from using post.
No event for me.

 

[Which Tyler]

If we had a national ID card (like every country you mention) then it wouldn't be an issue, as everyone would have the required ID.
Whilst not everyone has the required ID it disenfranchises those without it (which is entirely the point).
Given tht voter fraud is practically non-existant (IIRC the estimate for 2017 was 6 cases; all of which were for postal votes where ID wouldn't have made any difference) then disenfrachising 10s of thousands to "solve" 6 cases that it wouldn't solve isn't even a sledgehammer to crack a nut; it's more like a nuclear bomb to plant some spring bulbs.

As for the post office - where do you live that that's the case? I've never been required to bring anything more than the note from the post office saying that there's a parcel for me to collect.

 

[duncanb]

If we had a national ID card (like every country you mention) then it wouldn't be an issue, as everyone would have the required ID.
Whilst not everyone has the required ID it disenfranchises those without it.

As for the post office - where do you live that that's the case? I've never been required to bring anything more than the note from the post office saying that there's a parcel for me to collect.

Northamptonshire common practice here.

 

[Which Tyler]

I've only just noticed this part, further down the article:

Voters will have to renew their registration to vote by post every three years, rather than remaining on the list indefinitely.

Disenfranchising even more people who aren't as switched on to these things.

Quite honestly, I don't even see what problem that's trying to solve - beyond that too many of the wrong sort of people vote in elections (with a significant overlap in which party they tend to vote for).

 

[duncanb]

Will have to agree to disagree sure you remember to renew a driver's licence, passport, home insurance car insurance, MOT etc.
Why not renewing a vote is an issue ? when we renew shed load of stuff as a matter of course no doubt like car tax a reminder will be auto generated and you renew online or in person.