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So I find it hard to credit the bias. We voted, the government promised they would implement the result. Cameron clearly told us what the vote was for. May was elected on the strength of the manifesto she provided. I am sure you must realise the scare stories are just that. The biggest vote in British history is being swept under the carpet 17.4 million votes. I personally am sick of knowit all idiots referring to me as a leave voter being right wing extremist, fascist etc. This used to be a democracy. As for lies I see Banks has been cleared, BBC are being investigated for election bias, remain for over spending and May has lied upon lie since the vote. MPs refuse to act on the mandate given by the electorate. I suppose Manchester Isis and the phiapino cathedral shootings are all down to brexiteers as well.
 
TBF to DC he quit said he didn't want anything to do with it and doesn't keep sticking his oar in. He also despite everything he said to the contrary before the referendum had to quit.

The actual architects of Leave many had the opportunity to lead the way. They quit but can't keep thier gobs shut.
Unlike the undemocratic minority trying to overturn a legal vote.
 
So I find it hard to credit the bias. We voted, the government promised they would implement the result. Cameron clearly told us what the vote was for.
That's not true
May was elected on the strength of the manifesto she provided. I am sure you must realise the scare stories are just that.
That's not true
The biggest vote in British history is being swept under the carpet 17.4 million votes. I personally am sick of knowit all idiots referring to me as a leave voter being right wing extremist, fascist etc.
That's not true
This used to be a democracy. As for lies I see Banks has been cleared, BBC are being investigated for election bias, remain for over spending and May has lied upon lie since the vote.
May has never been a remainer in anything but name
MPs refuse to act on the mandate given by the electorate.
That's not true
I suppose Manchester Isis and the phiapino cathedral shootings are all down to brexiteers as well.
Nope
Unlike the undemocratic minority trying to overturn a legal vote.
That's not true
 
If they are still a minority a second democratic vote will still lead to us leaving...
We're also not trying to overturn the vote, but to continue with democracy... with more information than we had last time.

As we finally seem to have someone who believes that holding votes is undemocratic, could @bertiec please explain how 2 years between general elections democratic; parliament voting on exactly the same thing once a month is democratic, but a second, informed referendum is undemocratic / treason?
I would genuinely like an explanation, reasoning, for this viewpoint, asnallnive seen so far is sound bites repeated louder as if that makes then truthful.
 
So I find it hard to credit the bias. We voted, the government promised they would implement the result. Cameron clearly told us what the vote was for. May was elected on the strength of the manifesto she provided. I am sure you must realise the scare stories are just that. The biggest vote in British history is being swept under the carpet 17.4 million votes. I personally am sick of knowit all idiots referring to me as a leave voter being right wing extremist, fascist etc. This used to be a democracy. As for lies I see Banks has been cleared, BBC are being investigated for election bias, remain for over spending and May has lied upon lie since the vote. MPs refuse to act on the mandate given by the electorate. I suppose Manchester Isis and the phiapino cathedral shootings are all down to brexiteers as well.

It was never, ever a binary choice. Democracy also means compromising, which Brexiteers do not and ever will.
 
Actually Soubry doesn't call brexit voters racist, listen to what she says FFS.

She's talking about the arse-wipes who are harassing people outside Parliament in their stupid hi-vis gear.


Let's hear from the main Brexit guy on what he thinks about 2nd referendums
"In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."
 


https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/...Stronger+Britain+and+a+More+Prosperous....pdf
Traditionally a vote is implemented before another held. There is no point voting if the result is ignored or negated.
As for binary, I had 2 boxes to choose on my paper.


Yeah you did but there wasn't a further if you choose to leave the EU how do you want to leave question was there? That was left to Parliament to decide and this is the current mess we are faced with. Nothing stopping you voting in a second referendum for May's deal if it were ever to be put to a second referendum.
 
Yeah can't call racists racist, that's just rude.

Leave ultimately boiled down to 3 main points:

1 - Immigration. The problem with this argument is that leave the EU doesn't solve it and EU immigrants tend to be more in line with British culture than immigrants from east asia. It also ignores that the government has done nothing to keep immigration down within it's power so why do you think leaving the EU will change that? Also ignores the massive skills shortages in the UK, we simply aren't training up enough people to fill various roles without immigration. Also, contrary to popular belief, immigrants to the UK are on average better paid and more highly educated than your average Brit. The argument that immigrants drive down salaries is ********. Immigrants on average also pay more in tax and take less in benefits.

2 - Sovereignty. Bit laughable since sovereignty lies with Parliament, not the people, and yet those arguing for Parliamentary sovereignty are now whinging because Parliament is exercising that sovereignty. Parliament could choose to completely ignore the referendum if it chooses because it is Parliament that is sovereign and cannot be bound by anything. Also can people list all the laws forced on us by the EU that Britain voted against? (clue, we have a veto of huge swathes of legislation.) Also funny enough those that complained about the lack of democracy in the EU also then complained at the EU Parliament being given extra powers and more legislation moving to a simple majority vote to pass.

3 - EU controlled by the French / Germans. Utter crap simple as that. If anything the Germans have been some of our closer allies in the EU pushing for similar reforms as Britain has. If the Germans have a lot of influence it's largely because we were standing beside them throwing our weight into it too. With us gone the Germans will find themselves facing the Mediterranean countries without another Germanic culture supporting them and will likely become less able to get things done. People seem to forget that by numbers we were one of the most influential countries in the EU and, in terms of shaping legislation, we probably had more influence than just about any other nation since we joined. We also had a huge influence in setting up the precursors to the EU but leavers love to portray us as some sidelined power ignored by everyone except for when they are inexplicably going out of their way to solely screw us over.
 
Yeah can't call racists racist, that's just rude.

Leave ultimately boiled down to 3 main points:

1 - Immigration. The problem with this argument is that leave the EU doesn't solve it and EU immigrants tend to be more in line with British culture than immigrants from east asia. It also ignores that the government has done nothing to keep immigration down within it's power so why do you think leaving the EU will change that? Also ignores the massive skills shortages in the UK, we simply aren't training up enough people to fill various roles without immigration. Also, contrary to popular belief, immigrants to the UK are on average better paid and more highly educated than your average Brit. The argument that immigrants drive down salaries is ********. Immigrants on average also pay more in tax and take less in benefits.

2 - Sovereignty. Bit laughable since sovereignty lies with Parliament, not the people, and yet those arguing for Parliamentary sovereignty are now whinging because Parliament is exercising that sovereignty. Parliament could choose to completely ignore the referendum if it chooses because it is Parliament that is sovereign and cannot be bound by anything. Also can people list all the laws forced on us by the EU that Britain voted against? (clue, we have a veto of huge swathes of legislation.) Also funny enough those that complained about the lack of democracy in the EU also then complained at the EU Parliament being given extra powers and more legislation moving to a simple majority vote to pass.

3 - EU controlled by the French / Germans. Utter crap simple as that. If anything the Germans have been some of our closer allies in the EU pushing for similar reforms as Britain has. If the Germans have a lot of influence it's largely because we were standing beside them throwing our weight into it too. With us gone the Germans will find themselves facing the Mediterranean countries without another Germanic culture supporting them and will likely become less able to get things done. People seem to forget that by numbers we were one of the most influential countries in the EU and, in terms of shaping legislation, we probably had more influence than just about any other nation since we joined. We also had a huge influence in setting up the precursors to the EU but leavers love to portray us as some sidelined power ignored by everyone except for when they are inexplicably going out of their way to solely screw us over.

slander and false accusation is still a crime and youre guilty of it here

1) your argument is false. a) the illegal immigration was the real trigger. the labout govt at one stage admitted it was millions. they lost all track of that. IF theyd bothered tracking it and reducing it , instead of calling everyone racist for even mentioning it, we wouldnt be where we are
b) blair yet again , the war criminal. he choose to open borders to nearly every european nation. he had the choice to open to fewer as germany did but he went over the top. End result german population fell over 15/20 years...UK population rose a staggering 9 million in 27 years.. To say a 9 million net increase in population doesnt affect the nation and its services etc is a lie c) By banning the discussion and falsely accusing those of stopping ILLEGAL immigration at the start , then you open the door for frustration and extremists.

2. No idea what youre talking about. We are the UK we should be in control of our own nation and our own laws. Thankfully we kept our currency so we were able to navigate the choppy waters of recessions and chance our interest rates and print money etc Greece and the endless other bankrupt eu nations were powerless to do any of this and are now merely a small irrelevant bankrupt nation controlled by the whims of their richer european partners

3. germany pushed for open borders as they needed mass immigration to push down wages and supply cheap labour

4. the eu destroys sme's and enslaves us ever more to corrupt tax dodging corporate cartels
 
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by the way mueller found no collusion between trump and russia in the election, so the democrats must simply accept the dreadful hilary was defefeated and trump is president. youd think theyd be happy the economy is booming under him
 
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