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The Oggmonster said:
1. You may as well blame the whole cabinet. Sorry but every man and his dog knows that this ultimately lies at Blair's doorstop - he was PM and made the call.
2. Those cuts led to more spending in health and education.
3. Blaming him for Cameron getting into power is ridiculous. New Labour was worn out, Brown was not media friendly during campaign (at least he had the balls to take part in TV debates) and the country were ready for a change.

You clearly dislike GB with a passion and will not entertain anyone who has more objective opinions.
Click to expand...

No you just have made him out to be someone he wasn't.

  1. Yes you can blame the whole cabinet and I do. This isn't the USA where the President has executive powers. The PM needs the support of his Government and after that parliament to agree and as number 2 in the cabinet he could have resigned in protest like others did but he didn't. Hes a much a poodle as Blair was.
  2. Yeah spend it on education and health fine with me just don't then agree to deploy the army (many of which are lads that I served with) into a war they are not equipped for and then still refuse to release the funds necessary when its become obvious to all that the war turns out to be more protracted than expected.
  3. Who else is to blame then? He was the PM. He called the election and lost.

I am happy to entertain people with differing opinions to mine just ask Ncurd but please don't make Gordon Brown to be anything other than the person he really was unless you can offer up a reasonable argument.
 
In terms of the economy. It was more years of government policy to borrow heavily on the assumption that markets couldn't collapse that badly again. I think if the Conservatives had got into power before the crash they would have been in exactly the same position.

I don't think it excuses the government's actions, but to say it was solely them is misleading.
 
Reiser99 said:
In terms of the economy. It was more years of government policy to borrow heavily on the assumption that markets couldn't collapse that badly again. I think if the Conservatives had got into power before the crash they would have been in exactly the same position.

I don't think it excuses the government's actions, but to say it was solely them is misleading.
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Dont remember saying it was solely them but you are right about the tories although this was supposed to be a Labour Government not just another Tory one
 
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ncurd said:
Please don't....adults can enjoy stuff that on reflection can be a bit problematic.
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Lol.

They are coming for Rudolph the red nosed reindeer now for promoting bullying. (Even though I thought that was kind of the point of Rudolph not to worry what others say about you differences, well that and selling stuff).
 
Peta win at taking the ******* **** at being offended though. even their supporters have gone WTF
 
Tallshort said:
No you just have made him out to be someone he wasn't.

  1. Yes you can blame the whole cabinet and I do. This isn't the USA where the President has executive powers. The PM needs the support of his Government and after that parliament to agree and as number 2 in the cabinet he could have resigned in protest like others did but he didn't. Hes a much a poodle as Blair was.
  2. Yeah spend it on education and health fine with me just don't then agree to deploy the army (many of which are lads that I served with) into a war they are not equipped for and then still refuse to release the funds necessary when its become obvious to all that the war turns out to be more protracted than expected.
  3. Who else is to blame then? He was the PM. He called the election and lost.

I am happy to entertain people with differing opinions to mine just ask Ncurd but please don't make Gordon Brown to be anything other than the person he really was unless you can offer up a reasonable argument.
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It's almost as if you are trying to fabricate an argument out of thin air. I never made him out to be saint but just claimed he's not as bad as some made out when compared with other PMs.

I think you have issues mate. I've seen some of your other exchanges and it's clear that you're always looking for an argument or will flame anyone whose view isn't aligned with yours. Go ahead and try and get the last word (I'm sure you won't be able to help yourself) but I won't be reading it :D
 
So read this, this evening.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46460194

Theresa May called the Brexit vote the biggest democratic exercise and I remember others at the time saying things like the greatest democratic exercise in history etc... and something to show how wonderful democracy can be.

However when you look back you have...

A referendum called to win back voters that went wrong.
Two campaigns that didn't fully inform voters, one using project fantasy, the other project fear.
Uninformed voters (due to lack of accurate information) who voted based on emotion rather than facts
A result that was so close it split the country (most other countries require 60-70% majorities to make major constitutional changes)
Dodgy finances for one side which if breaks electoral law should mean the vote is null and void and should be rerun.
A P.M who jumped ship
A pathetic excuse for a leadership contest where Gove stabbed Boris in the back and we ended up with the person who barely campaigned for either side.
No one agreeing how to proceed
A P.M who triggered article 50 with no actual plan in place
A botched opportunistic election that ruined a majority.
A bung to the DUP
Legal challenges showing that despite what politicians said, the referendum was never legally binding and only advisory (who knew politicians lie and get things wrong)
Boris as foreign secretary
Two years of pathetic negotiations after being told it would be over in a week and that we had the stronger hand.
A deal that satisfies no one.
Labour having no clue as to a genuine alternative
Extreme Brexiteers having no clue as a to genuine alternative
Some ridiculous parliamentary group called the European Research Group that was basically a place for Brexiteers to conspire.
Apparently a group that could easily force a vote of no confidence that we then had to wait over the weekend for and then never actually happened.
The government being held in contempt of parliament
A potential vote down of the deal that leaves with either staying in or no deal.

So yeah, let's inspire countries around the world to adopt democracy.

P.S Let me know if I missed anything.
 
Reiser99 said:
So read this, this evening.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46460194

Theresa May called the Brexit vote the biggest democratic exercise and I remember others at the time saying things like the greatest democratic exercise in history etc... and something to show how wonderful democracy can be.

However when you look back you have...

A referendum called to win back voters that went wrong.
Two campaigns that didn't fully inform voters, one using project fantasy, the other project fear.
Uninformed voters (due to lack of accurate information) who voted based on emotion rather than facts
A result that was so close it split the country (most other countries require 60-70% majorities to make major constitutional changes)
Dodgy finances for one side which if breaks electoral law should mean the vote is null and void and should be rerun.
A P.M who jumped ship
A pathetic excuse for a leadership contest where Gove stabbed Boris in the back and we ended up with the person who barely campaigned for either side.
No one agreeing how to proceed
A P.M who triggered article 50 with no actual plan in place
A botched opportunistic election that ruined a majority.
A bung to the DUP
Legal challenges showing that despite what politicians said, the referendum was never legally binding and only advisory (who knew politicians lie and get things wrong)
Boris as foreign secretary
Two years of pathetic negotiations after being told it would be over in a week and that we had the stronger hand.
A deal that satisfies no one.
Labour having no clue as to a genuine alternative
Extreme Brexiteers having no clue as a to genuine alternative
Some ridiculous parliamentary group called the European Research Group that was basically a place for Brexiteers to conspire.
Apparently a group that could easily force a vote of no confidence that we then had to wait over the weekend for and then never actually happened.
The government being held in contempt of parliament
A potential vote down of the deal that leaves with either staying in or no deal.

So yeah, let's inspire countries around the world to adopt democracy.

P.S Let me know if I missed anything.
Click to expand...

Labour membership vote a in leader who has always been anti EU and then being in shock when he doesn't vigorously campaign to keep us in it
 
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