A Political Thread

[McTallshort]

TBH I don't think it was criticising he Scots, more that they argued against those reasons for Scotland leaving, but use the same arguments for leaving the E.U, which is very hypocritical and shows they only care about what benefits them, rather than the sovereignty argument they keep going on about it. We should have sovereignty but you can't.

If memory serves (and I am getting on a bit so I might be wrong) those most against Scottish independence were the same people who supported remain in the EU referendum. The same people who said leaving the EU would be a disaster were the same people saying Scottish Independence would be a disaster.

I don't get the connection ragerancher is making.

 

[General Melchett]

If memory serves (and I am getting on a bit so I might be wrong) those most against Scottish independence were the same people who supported remain in the EU referendum. The same people who said leaving the EU would be a disaster were the same people saying Scottish Independence would be a disaster.

I don't get the connection ragerancher is making.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think the argument being made was that many non-Scottish Brexiteers criticised the tactics used by the SNP during the Scottish independence referendum and then went ahead and used similar tactics in the pursuit of Brexit, hence the hypocrisy suggestion. Most people who voted No to Scottish independence did indeed vote for the UK to remain in the EU.

 

[McTallshort]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think the argument being made was that many non-Scottish Brexiteers criticised the tactics used by the SNP during the Scottish independence referendum and then went ahead and used similar tactics in the pursuit of Brexit, hence the hypocrisy suggestion. Most people who voted No to Scottish independence did indeed vote for the UK to remain in the EU.

Don't remember the non Scottish Brexiteers getting involved in the Scottish referendum. The only people I remember getting involved in keeping Scotland in the UK were the former New Labour, Lib dem and pro EU tories.

 

[McTallshort]

Ok I was wrong!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29170924

 

[Reiser99]

So the government basically lost every vote today and parliament said to them that they have the final say. Well it's British sovereignty in action. Seriously, if people think Brussels is bad wait until our politicians are left to fend for themselves.

Apparently it's the first time a government has been held in contempt of parliament and Theresa May has lost as many votes in one day as Gordon Brown did in his entire time in office.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Utter incompetence. Even though I'm a remainer, I'd not feel too bad about it if I thought Brexit was being managed by intelligent and competent individuals. From start to present the government has worse than useless, they have been actively harmful to the whole process whilst not keeping the option of staying in free for their inevitable balls up. It's like deciding you are going to take a powerful racing car you have no experience driving around a track and then, rather than taking it slowly to begin with, you stick a brick on the accelerator, throw the brake pedal out the window and dedicate all your attention to doing nothing except trying to honk the horn as loudly as you can with your own face.

 

[General Melchett]

A second referendum is inevitable. May knows that she won't be allowed to fight another General Election after what happened last time and in any case this is clearly a single issue debate which is more suited to a referendum rather than a GE which should be fought over a variety of issues. I think this Tory Government will go down in history as the one who cost the country it's Brexit and I hope those who voted for Brexit recognise and remember that.

That stat about Gordon Brown is interesting. He was criticised as being dour and lacking media skills but of the last four PM's he's probably the only one who didn't balls it up - it was he who in fact stopped the UK from ditching the pound and joining the Euro and he also refused to be Bush's poodle like Blair used to be. Blair will forever be tarnished with Iraq while Cameron and May will have Brexit.

 

[McTallshort]

A second referendum is inevitable. May knows that she won't be allowed to fight another General Election after what happened last time and in any case this is clearly a single issue debate which is more suited to a referendum rather than a GE which should be fought over a variety of issues. I think this Tory Government will go down in history as the one who cost the country it's Brexit and I hope those who voted for Brexit recognise and remember that.

That stat about Gordon Brown is interesting. He was criticised as being dour and lacking media skills but of the last four PM's he's probably the only one who didn't balls it up - it was he who in fact stopped the UK from ditching the pound and joining the Euro and he also refused to be Bush's poodle like Blair used to be. Blair will forever be tarnished with Iraq while Cameron and May will have Brexit.

Yeah I mean it wasnt like he was chancellor when we had the biggest financial crisis in modern times!

 

[Which Tyler]

Yeah I mean it wasnt like he was chancellor when we had the biggest financial crisis in modern times!

A common stick to beat him with. But I hardly think that there's anything the UK could maybe done about the American housing market, or US banking policies.

FTR, I think he was a terrible PM

 

[ncurd]

Yeah I mean it wasnt like he was chancellor when we had the biggest financial crisis in modern times!

I think Brown gets unfair cop for that. It was caused by American subprime mortgages and the collapse of Lehman Brothers. Mistakes were made but the vast majority of the problem wasn't his creation.

 

[ncurd]

FTR, I think he was a terrible PM

I don't think he was a good leader at all either. Compare to our incumbent however he looks like Attlee.

 

[McTallshort]

I think Brown gets unfair cop for that. It was caused by American subprime mortgages and the collapse of Lehman Brothers. Mistakes were made but the vast majority of the problem wasn't his creation.

So you don't think that he had any responsibility for it at all? He as Chancellor had no say in how the financial industry was regulated or how they conducted themselves? He was fine with 125% mortgages, dangerous share speculation and borrowing that made the eyes water?

Not to mention his tax on pensions, his over spending in the public sector and that he would only support other ministers ideas if he could take credit for it?

Man was a megalomaniac who's split with Tony Blair poisoned the entire New Labour government.

 

[General Melchett]

Yeah I mean it wasnt like he was chancellor when we had the biggest financial crisis in modern times!

Any Chancellor would have been powerless to stop that, especially in an era of globalisation.

 

[McTallshort]

Any Chancellor would have been powerless to stop that, especially in an era of globalisation.

see answer above. There was plenty he could have done about it.

 

[General Melchett]

I don't think he was a good leader at all either. Compare to our incumbent however he looks like Attlee.

I'm not saying he was great but hindsight is proving that he wasn't as bad as many suggested at the time. Can you imagine how messier Brexit would have been if he hadn't intervened and stopped us from joining the Euro.

 

[General Melchett]

I hope he made the most of having Alastair Darling as Chancellor. So much opportunity to act out scenes from Blackadder Goes Forth.

How do I look Darling?
Don't slouch Darling.

 

[General Melchett]

So you don't think that he had any responsibility for it at all? He as Chancellor had no say in how the financial industry was regulated or how they conducted themselves? He was fine with 125% mortgages, dangerous share speculation and borrowing that made the eyes water?

Not to mention his tax on pensions, his over spending in the public sector and that he would only support other ministers ideas if he could take credit for it?

Man was a megalomaniac who's split with Tony Blair poisoned the entire New Labour government.

Pales into insignificance when compared with the chaos Cameron has caused with Brexit and the illegal war in Iraq courtesy of Blair acting like Bush's poodle.

 

[ncurd]

So you don't think that he had any responsibility for it at all? He as Chancellor had no say in how the financial industry was regulated or how they conducted themselves? He was fine with 125% mortgages, dangerous share speculation and borrowing that made the eyes water?

Not to mention his tax on pensions, his over spending in the public sector and that he would only support other ministers ideas if he could take credit for it?

Man was a megalomaniac who's split with Tony Blair poisoned the entire New Labour government.

I said mistakes were made and you specifically blamed him for a crisis that was not of his making. His decisions probably made things worse but they were always going to be bad.

 

[McTallshort]

Pales into insignificance when compared with the chaos Cameron has caused with Brexit and the illegal war in Iraq courtesy of Blair acting like Bush's poodle.

OK a couple of things:

1. Who was number 2 in the Labour Government that went to war in Iraq and as such was just as responsible for that war as the Prime Minister?
2. Who because of years of budget cuts to the Armed Forces was responsible for British forces to be deployed in Iraq minus basic equipment?
3. Who because he ballsed up the economy as Chancellor and couldn't win an election as PM allowed Mr Cameroon and co to take power?

Quick clue: his initials are GB and he only has one eye

 

[General Melchett]

OK a couple of things:

1. Who was number 2 in the Labour Government that went to war in Iraq and as such was just as responsible for that war as the Prime Minister?
2. Who because of years of budget cuts to the Armed Forces was responsible for British forces to be deployed in Iraq minus basic equipment?
3. Who because he ballsed up the economy as Chancellor and couldn't win an election as PM allowed Mr Cameroon and co to take power?

Quick clue: his initials are GB and he only has one eye

1. You may as well blame the whole cabinet. Sorry but every man and his dog knows that this ultimately lies at Blair's doorstop - he was PM and made the call.
2. Those cuts led to more spending in health and education.
3. Blaming him for Cameron getting into power is ridiculous. New Labour was worn out, Brown was not media friendly during campaign (at least he had the balls to take part in TV debates) and the country were ready for a change.

You clearly dislike GB with a passion and will not entertain anyone who has more objective opinions.