A Political Thread

[Bada-Bing!]

Another AR-15 supposedly used, more "Thoughts and Prayers/condolenses" passed to the families, Trump shifting the focus onto the perpetrator being mentally ill and the need to report them and not how the hell did the shooter obtain an AR-15 in the first place. And again "this is not the time to talk about gun control" - well when is a good time?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It's so sad! There is nothing to say that hasn't been said already.

This.

Until attitudes and legislation change, its a case of when next, where and how many.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He bought a rifle last year but can't buy a Bacardi breezer for another 2.
America is crazy.

As mentioned above: If Sandy Hook wasn't enough to change anything I can't see anything happening, especially with the NRA/gun lobbies pulling the strings in DC.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

This.

Until attitudes and legislation change, its a case of when next, where and how many.

I'm fine with non-Americans Having this attitude but if it becomes popular among Americans who want gun control (which if you believe polls is at least 70% of us), then that's when this is lost.

We cannot become apathetic and just accept that mass shootings are part of our lives. We need to keep believing that we can change things. Because without that belief we have no chance.

 

[McTallshort]

I'm fine with non-Americans Having this attitude but if it becomes popular among Americans who want gun control (which if you believe polls is at least 70% of us), then that's when this is lost.

We cannot become apathetic and just accept that mass shootings are part of our lives. We need to keep believing that we can change things. Because without that belief we have no chance.

What needs to happen before things change?

Obviously lots of children getting shot doesn't seem to bother the political elite.

Church meetings being shot up? No that's happened.

Pop concerts being used as a shooting gallery? Apparently the answer is more guns.

The fact is that shootings are happening more and more yet America seems further away from a grown up debate on gun control than its ever been.

I'm not sure what hope there is.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I'm fine with non-Americans Having this attitude but if it becomes popular among Americans who want gun control (which if you believe polls is at least 70% of us), then that's when this is lost.

We cannot become apathetic and just accept that mass shootings are part of our lives. We need to keep believing that we can change things. Because without that belief we have no chance.

But that is exactly What is happening in the US isn't it? The world is looking at it he US and shaking their heads that this happening yet again and that it is very much a way of life for Americans and nothing will get done until the next mass shooting.

Belief meets sod all without action in Washington - no chance of that with the NRA lobby so powerful and the Orange Orangutan in the White House.

 

[GarethGriffiths]

A difficult one.

On the one hand, you have people calling for the abolition of gun ownership.

On the other hand, you have people saying that they have the right to defend themselves from idiots such as the one who ran amok yesterday.

If people want to kill other people, it isn't going to matter to them how they do it - guns, knives, axes, even ricin poisoning. What maybe we should be looking at is why seemingly normal people go nuts and commit these atrocities. As in the case of the man jailed recently for imprisoning his 11 year old daughter in a freezer, there may have been signs that things were not alright with the person in question and it was a missed opportunity to intervene.

Ban guns, but you still won't stop idiots being idiots - we need to dig a lot deeper and find out why these kids aren't alright.

 

[big ginger 8]

A difficult one.

On the one hand, you have people calling for the abolition of gun ownership.

On the other hand, you have people saying that they have the right to defend themselves from idiots such as the one who ran amok yesterday.

If people want to kill other people, it isn't going to matter to them how they do it - guns, knives, axes, even ricin poisoning. What maybe we should be looking at is why seemingly normal people go nuts and commit these atrocities. As in the case of the man jailed recently for imprisoning his 11 year old daughter in a freezer, there may have been signs that things were not alright with the person in question and it was a missed opportunity to intervene.

Ban guns, but you still won't stop idiots being idiots - we need to dig a lot deeper and find out why these kids aren't alright.

Ban guns and you won't stop idiots being idiots but you make it a whole lot harder to kill someone.

Guns are the most efficient close range weapon we have. Fatalities would be down if someone just had a knife or axe.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

You're not killing 17 people with a knife.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'm fine with non-Americans Having this attitude but if it becomes popular among Americans who want gun control (which if you believe polls is at least 70% of us), then that's when this is lost.

We cannot become apathetic and just accept that mass shootings are part of our lives. We need to keep believing that we can change things. Because without that belief we have no chance.

Agreed. But eventually someone's got to lead that change. Someone with clout, a very brave someone. Who could that be? What's the catalyst, the senate being wiped out, another presidential assassination, carnage at the Oscars? Or would that just breed even more fighting fire with fire mentality?

Hope I'm very wrong, but it really doesn't feel this will ever be won by gradual reason, education or by winning hearts and minds.

 

[Groundhog]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/04/opinion/thoughts-prayers-nra-funding-senators.html
Bribery dressed up to be acceptable in a first world nation as lobbying. Happens in pretty much every facet of American Society where something that is harmful for the American people gets through (Net Neutrality being another recent example). Scum.

 

[MarkyH]

A difficult one

No its not!

 

[GarethGriffiths]

Agreed. But eventually someone's got to lead that change. Someone with clout, a very brave someone. Who could that be? What's the catalyst, the senate being wiped out, another presidential assassination, carnage at the Oscars? Or would that just breed even more fighting fire with fire mentality?

Hope I'm very wrong, but it really doesn't feel this will ever be won by gradual reason, education or by winning hearts and minds.

Even if those happen, I can't see change coming any time soon.

You have to look at the mentality of people - what makes them do these heinous acts?

 

[MarkyH]

If the US banned all guns after Columbine would we have seen instances like yesterday? Like Sandy Hook? Would we see the huge figures of dead, killed by guns today, would there be THOUSANDS of families morning there dead children killed in endless school shootings. OF COURSE NOT?! It's not difficult.

Yes, nutters will remain, and people who want to kill others will still exists, but it's a hell of a lot easier to tackle someone with a knife than it is someone with an assault rifle?!

 

[MarkyH]

Even if those happen, I can't see change coming any time soon.

You have to look at the mentality of people - what makes them do these heinous acts?

Mental health support is massively important and I wish it was taken serisosly round the world, but when a persons mentality is at there lowest, before they've had chance to recover (if they get that chance) we really don't want them to be able to walk into Walmart and buy an assault rifle?!

I'm not being antagonistic, but you can see that right?

 

[GarethGriffiths]

No its not!

Maybe not to you, but you aren't looking at it from the side of 'how the hell do I defend myself from a mad person intent on killing me?'

If you ban guns, guess what - you'll create an underground environment where guns can be illegally bought and distributed, perhaps even on the dark web?

The Yanks tried that with Prohibition, guess what - they failed. Speakeasy's thrived and eventually the sale of alcohol was legalised again.

Again, please look at the psychology of these people - I hear that a chance to intervene with the shooter was missed? Why was this so?

 

[MarkyH]

Maybe not to you, but you aren't looking at it from the side of 'how the hell do I defend myself from a mad person intent on killing me?'

If you ban guns, guess what - you'll create an underground environment where guns can be illegally bought and distributed, perhaps even on the dark web?

The Yanks tried that with Prohibition, guess what - they failed. Speakeasy's thrived and eventually the sale of alcohol was legalised again.

Again, please look at the psychology of these people - I hear that a chance to intervene with the shooter was missed? Why was this so?

What, so we should legalise guns in this country just so I can defend myself? We don't have a gun problem like the US do we?

 

[GarethGriffiths]

Mental health support is massively important and I wish it was taken serisosly round the world, but when a persons mentality is at there lowest, before they've had chance to recover (if they get that chance) we really don't want them to be able to walk into Walmart and buy an assault rifle?!

I'm not being antagonistic, but you can see that right?

No, but good mental health counselling SHOULD mean that they never go to Walmart (or wherever) for the rifle.

I have seen what happens when people are at their lowest mentally, and like you I wish it was taken more seriously. It should not be a Cinderella service.

 

[Brigantine]

You're not killing 17 people with a knife.

You can in Japan. Though that seems like the only example, and it's a bit of a special case.

Also, with a truck you can kill 86.

 

[MarkyH]

Couldn't we all buy guns on the dark web now, and create the scenario you claim? Do you want to buy a gun to defend yourself? Are the Valleys that bad now?