A Political Thread

[Bada-Bing!]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39278968

Hahaha, what a U turn by the Government over NIC increases for the Self-employed.

 

[McTallshort]

Should think so too. If your self employed you take the risks and should be taxed accordinly

 

[ncurd]

Should think so too. If your self employed you take the risks and should be taxed accordinly

And in what way do any of those risks means you should be taxed less?

Lets put it this way name me one benefit 'funded' by NI that someone self employed does not get that someone employed does. Holiday, Sick Leave, Maternity/Paternity pay are all funded by employers not NI before oyu say those.

 

[McTallshort]

Have you ever been Self Employed?

 

[ncurd]

Have you ever been Self Employed?

So you can't answer the question.

 

[McTallshort]

No ncurd its a genuine question.

 

[ncurd]

No ncurd its a genuine question.

No you answered a question with a question.

 

[McTallshort]

Ncurd. I am trying to explain to you the extra risks you take as someone who is self emplyed. I asked you a genuine question asking if you had been self employed to understand your experiances in life and how i could tailor my answer to that experiance but if you want to be a knob about it fine

 

[ncurd]

Ncurd. I am trying to explain to you the extra risks you take as someone who is self emplyed. I asked you a genuine question asking if you had been self employed to understand your experiances in life and how i could tailor my answer to that experiance but if you want to be a knob about it fine

Okay then,

I've not been self employed however that's mainly a choice I've taken outside of the tax argument.
I'm well aware of the risks of becoming self employed its because of them I choose not to become a contractor despite the extra money I would likely earn (contractors in our line of work earn a lot more before tax so the tax rates are not really what appeals to me).
By taking a steady salary at a very large multi-national I can guarantee barring redundancy how much money I will take in each month.
An example I could take a job at a small company of 10 employees, the risk to me loosing my job would far greater and the business going belly up. My employer would be self employed and could be paying less tax than me whilst probably paying himself more than me (which is only right you'd expect your employer to pay yourself more). so whilst an employee shares in risks they wouldn't get he benefit in taxes.

However my argument still stand why does choosing to take on those risks in the hope of earning extra money (bearing in mind this tax increase mainly effected higher self-employed earners rather than lower ones who've been forced into it) mitigate you from having to pay the same for benefits that you enjoy.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Job seekers allowance.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

They take the risk cause of the greater reward. Why should they get more protections when they potentially have more benefits. Should people working for companies be given extra benefits?

 

[ncurd]

Job seekers allowance.

If you've ever been on JSA you'll know the entire thing is a joke even for the 'employed'.

However you are right you can't get contribution based, income you may be entitled to income based if your company has gone belly up though.....I really don't know.

- - - Updated - - -

Job seekers allowance.

I think you would eligible for Universal Credit as well.

 

[McTallshort]

From my point of view and I have been both Self Employed and Employed, if you take the risk to become Self employed (investing money, employing your own staff etc) then you should be given tax breaks be that income tax or NI. There is a lot of uncertainty around being self employed and I remember looking for work on a daily basis sometimes but it was rewarding work and I had some lads on the books again at my risk and I was responsible for. I am employed currently and am happy to pay the extra NI and Tax because like you I get my fixed amount monthly and I don't have the worry others relying on me for work.

Regards the benefits yes you have a point......but you can when you do your tax return opt to pay full NI if you don't opt to then that effects your state pension etc. As for hitting the higher earners its hits everyone.

I understand the reasoning behind this even if I don't agree with it. There has been a sharp rise in self employed people and a large part of it is because companies like Amazon are recruiting people as "self Employed" so they don't have to give them a pension but the government should address that before making a large sweep of all the self employed.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

If you've ever been on JSA you'll know the entire thing is a joke even for the 'employed'.

However you are right you can't get contribution based, income you may be entitled to income based if your company has gone belly up though.....I really don't know.

- - - Updated - - -

I think you would eligible for Universal Credit as well.

Almost funny if it wasn't quite a serious problem.

I remember looking into getting JSA after finishing university while I was looking for jobs. Turned out I was "ineligible" because at the time I was doing a two day per week internship which, by the way led eventually to a job for me. The Job seekers centre said I needed to quit the internship so they could get a job working in a convenience store.

One one day of the week it's just hilariously funny how retarded the whole thing is. On another day in a different mood it can just make you angry about how something so important is so badly done in practise.

 

[McTallshort]

and I cannot believe you are siding with a Tory budget!

 

[ncurd]

Siding is odd term, did the Daily Mail and Rupert Murdoch openly warm to this part of the budget? Plus I quite like Phillip Hammond I actually think he has his head screwed on right, he's probably on the center right of party so I can find common ground.

The thing is though this wouldn't of effected the amazon workers as they are being paid a pittance. I think this only effected people on 16.5k or more (them at something like 60p a day).

There are a lot of loopholes that need covering up and I'm not convinced they went the right way personally I'd do away with NI entirely and just move it to income tax it being capped really gripes me.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Doing away with NIC and merging it with income tax is not politically, financially or legislatively feasible.

 

[j'nuh]

Doing away with NIC and merging it with income tax is not politically, financially or legislatively feasible.

It's a disgusting con that only exists because people don't really know about how it works tbh.

I'd keep it for now, but I'd get rid of the Upper Earnings Limit. Make the rich pay as much as the rest of us do.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

It's a disgusting con that only exists because people don't really know about how it works tbh.

I'd keep it for now, but I'd get rid of the Upper Earnings Limit. Make the rich pay as much as the rest of us do.

They've aligned the upper earnings limit for NIC with the higher rate threshold (£45k for 2017/18). The problem is that the personal allowance is not the same as Primary threshold for NIC. So those earning between circa £8k and £11.5k (for 2017/18) will still pay class 1 NIC or class 4 if you're self employed; as will the rest of us earning above the personal allowance. So the treasury are loathe to raise the Primary threshold and match it with the Personal allowance, otherwise they would lose out up to 12% on earnings between the PT and personal allowance. The Office of Tax Simplification (OTS) recommended to align the PT and personal allowance and raise class 1 NIC to 15% to make up for the shortfall in revenue, but this would be a vote loser. How do you sell to the middle classes that the total tax and NIC rate they will pay is 35% instead of what they are paying ATM?


Those earning over £45k are charged to higher rate income tax of 40% and NIC of an additional £2%. So raising that to 12% is another no go.

Much more likely the Autumn budget will reduce the annual allowance for pension contributions for higher rate tax payers, on which they pay tax relief to recover the £2 billion needed to make up the shortfall from the recent U turn.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Wales apprently now looking at independence.

From what I gather it is BS just the first minister trying to do an SNP, the fact is Wales voted for Brexit as well, it isn't like Scotland or NI.