A Political Thread

[TheOvalBall]

So am I one of the minorities here that think Trump will be the better president out of the 2 candidates??

Raises hand

 

[TRF_heineken]

Trump won.

Republicans have majority in the Senate and House of Representatives.

Trump also going to get 2 Supreme Court Justices...

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

People protesting kind of pointless when your leader conceded.

I mean I get your upset, but it is democracy.

Perhaps try to work out why Trump won and what you could do differently.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Perhaps try to work out why Trump won and what you could do differently.

I think a lot of people really, really need to take this on board.

Deriding huge swathes of people as cretins or morons, (no matter whether or not it's correct) is not a positive move, it's a self indulgent one.

What's more likely is that we'll see people ostracise those who are on "the other team", rather than conversing with and gaining an understanding of the other's views.

...I wonder how many people will have been "un-friended" today?

 

[ncurd]

People protesting kind of pointless when your leader conceded.

I mean I get your upset, but it is democracy.

Perhaps try to work out why Trump won and what you could do differently.

Yeah exactly you work within the system not try to tear it down.

Still I give them more credit than I would if it had been the opposite way around....

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I think a lot of people really, really need to take this on board.

Deriding huge swathes of people as cretins or morons, (no matter whether or not it's correct) is not a positive move, it's a self indulgent one.

Yep it annoys me that people are saying that Clinton lost due to the emails thing, it clearly wasn't the only case and if that is the mindset there are using they won't learn.

Why did the DNC not give Bernie a chance in the primaries would be a better start, then why are the blue collar workers going against the left despite the unions supporting Clinton.

Some many issues in it.



Interesting that the hardcore EU supporters in Europe think this will lead to more European intergration I think it will lead to less I think the next wave of European elections is going to follow this right trend still.

 

[ncurd]

...I wonder how many people will have been "un-friended" today?

I took someone out for a Britain First post the other day after I reminded people who they were.

But seriously I know nobody who even remotely thinks this was good idea even the right wingers I know.

 

[Aristodemus]

People need to accept that a nation can vote in their own leader and not everyone will share your opinion. It doesn't make them wrong, or less intelligent as some have suggested on here.
I'm surprised myself, not particularly disappointed though. Even if he isn't a nice person he won't be a warmonger president as I suspect Clinton may have been. Let's see how it will go.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I took someone out for a Britain First post the other day after I reminded people who they were.

Why?

It just ghettoises you and the other person.

If social media is a forum that people use for intellectual stimulus (and it is) then you should endeavour to actually converse with people in a rational manner... not expunge them.

 

[ncurd]

Yep it annoys me that people are saying that Clinton lost due to the emails thing, it clearly wasn't the only case and if that is the mindset there are using they won't learn.

It was probably the tipping point so I can understand why they are angry.

But yeah against someone as massively disliked as Trump this should of been a thumping win for the democrats. I look at people's reaction to the Obama's over this campaign and wonder how he would of done I imagine far far better.

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Why?

It just ghettoises you and the other person.

If social media is a forum that people use for intellectual stimulus (and it is) then you should endeavour to actually converse with people in a rational manner... not expunge them.

Because I've posted about Britain First before, infact I did it just the day before (and said I would unfriend anyone who carried on to so after I explained the kind of organisation they are). The person I removed doesn't want to converse and I don't have to listen. The other side of this is because of the post my in-laws after years of my wife trying to tell them to stop posting that crap finally listened and looked them up and stopped doing so.

By giving groups a voice you are legitimising them as someone to be listened, the freedom to speech is not a freedom to be heard. Actually this where the media is to be blamed ALOT in all this I don't think Trump would of made it out the primaries had they not given him a megaphone every time he said something colossally incendiary. That made the primaries about Trump and the other candidates. Even this election has been about NOT Trump instead of YES Clinton and all sides of the media are to blame for that not just the right. Why because it sold newspapers and increased viewership.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I don't get why Clinton had a big gig with random celebrities, instead of doing direct work in a key state of something.

I mean it's 2016 people don't care about celebrities thoughts, a black person isn't more likely to vote for you becuase Jay-Z was on stage with you...

 

[ratsapprentice]

I mean it's 2016 people don't care about celebrities thoughts, a black person isn't more likely to vote for you becuase Jay-Z was on stage with you...

Trump just won. His celebrity definitely helped, at least in getting him to point of being republican nominee.

 

[saulan]

People need to accept that a nation can vote in their own leader and not everyone will share your opinion. It doesn't make them wrong, or less intelligent as some have suggested on here.

I think the biggest problem is fear in this election and the thing I have been hearing from people I know and the media is this was the most polarizing election they have ever had. I saw an article saying 55% of democrats say the republicans make them afraid and 49% of republicans say the opposite.
http://www.people-press.org/2016/06/22/partisanship-and-political-animosity-in-2016/

Usually, there are big differences in what the nominees represent or the policies that they want to implement, but this time Trump was running a campaign which made comments that were often anti other races, ethnicities, the LGBT community and religions. I think it is a lot harder to accept a president who you could see, based on his comments, is anti who you are. It becomes less of political difference and more of a personal difference.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Your stuff about globalisation was fair I'm just not sure how you convince people that their feeling is wrong. Or more importantly that the people you are voting for are the exploiters in Trump.

On Obama the hostile Congress pretty much tied both hands behind his back. He pretty much did all he could. I think we'll ll wonder just how different things would be if he could of actually enacted his vision.

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The scary thing is ISIS is beginning to be in its death throes as a large occupier of land. Just in time.probably for Trump to.claim it as he defeated ISIS in February.

But are they wrong? Maybe they have a point that Globalisation is happening too quickly and it is forgetting about the ordinary man/woman. This mind set will not help those who voted for the status quo and are shocked by what has just happened; they have to understand why majority voted the way they did, otherwise they are just putting their head in the sand.

 

[McTallshort]

I think a lot of people really, really need to take this on board.

Deriding huge swathes of people as cretins or morons, (no matter whether or not it's correct) is not a positive move, it's a self indulgent one.

What's more likely is that we'll see people ostracise those who are on "the other team", rather than conversing with and gaining an understanding of the other's views.

...I wonder how many people will have been "un-friended" today?

This:

The lady on the BBC panel this morning was about to burst into tears and one point and brought up the "people with college education vote for Hilary" its frankly insulting to the vast majority of people like me who didn't go to college/Uni suggesting that our opinion is easy to dismiss as a protest.

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Your stuff about globalisation was fair I'm just not sure how you convince people that their feeling is wrong. Or more importantly that the people you are voting for are the exploiters in Trump.

On Obama the hostile Congress pretty much tied both hands behind his back. He pretty much did all he could. I think we'll ll wonder just how different things would be if he could of actually enacted his vision.

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The scary thing is ISIS is beginning to be in its death throes as a large occupier of land. Just in time.probably for Trump to.claim it as he defeated ISIS in February.

Sorry mate but that's just arrogant. What makes you so sure that people are wrong?

 

[ncurd]

People need to accept that a nation can vote in their own leader and not everyone will share your opinion. It doesn't make them wrong, or less intelligent as some have suggested on here.

The first part is the you lost get over it argument that is plain wrong. The majority of people can vote for the wrong thing you or not what's best for them know one of the fundamental flaws in democracy is that's the case.

On stupid.....there's a point you can't hine that it's the lower educated and sorry yes the below average intelligence are voting this way on a massive scale compared to other demographics. Dismissing them because they are is wrong but you have to also accept the 'intellectual' hard to explain (because things are complicated) argument is not going to work on them. It's the difference between "It's hard to explain so I won't but trust me I'm right" and distilling that explanation into a simple to understand sentence. Not suggesting it's the only thing but it is how populists win.

I got back to out Brexit argument and it's the same thing over again the left is too busy saying why the right bad whilst the right are just saying how great it will be with them and rubbish with the left. The left don't spend any time explaining why we're great. I have no idea why that's the case.

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Sorry mate but that's just arrogant. What makes you so sure that people are wrong?

What makes you think they are right? You feel it, right? Same for me about it being right. You missed the point I was trying to wasn't about right or wrong if people are feeling something as opposed to hard based fact it's very hard to convince them otherwise when yours is also one. We're not dealing with facts when it come to globalisation (which is a big word encompassing all sorts of things and can't be clearly defined).

 

[ratsapprentice]

The first part is the you lost get over it argument that is plain wrong.

Nope - it's "you lost - now try to understand why".

 

[ncurd]

The lady on the BBC panel this morning was about to burst into tears and one point and brought up the "people with college education vote for Hilary" its frankly insulting to the vast majority of people like me who didn't go to college/Uni suggesting that our opinion is easy to dismiss as a protest.

Ask yourself if this sound familiar from individual commenters on say the BBC that get massively upvoted (and downvoted).

"This an up yours to the 'elites'"

"The people are railing against the establishment."

That's the very definition of a protest vote.

I think your mixing the two issues as the same thing. But massively in the demographics lesser educated people are resorting to this kind of language and that's obvious if you keep you ear to the ground.
Less about the Tory's winning last election but why are people voting UKIP or Green? In their droves parties unlikely to even get a seat. The SNP a traditional labour heart ground is now almost entirely SNP.
People are railing against the establishment, and a lot of language to why people voting for Trump was the same (if you read around, thank God our friend Austintir isn't around). Why are they running from the establishment?

Let not forget Clinton (the establishment candidate) without the help of super-delegates barely won the Democratic nomination.
Corbyn (again anti-establishment even when his party was in government) has massive support in the UK.

And those are the university educated running in those directions.


It's a mixing up of the protest vote and education levels.

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Nope - it's "you lost - now try to understand why".

It doesn't matter really. Little stressed out over other things right now (outside of global changing event) probably biting a bit more than I should at ever little bit.

 

[Aristodemus]

You realise Ncurd that essentially you are saying 100m (or however many voted republican)Americans are wrong and more than that they are too stupid to understand why they are wrong. I understand you're upset, for whatever reason, but that's pretty condescending.
I tend to steer clear of politics with people I don't know and this is the reason why.

 

[TRF_heineken]

The first part is the you lost get over it argument that is plain wrong. The majority of people can vote for the wrong thing you or not what's best for them know one of the fundamental flaws in democracy is that's the case.

This is true, just look at the South African Government.

On stupid.....there's a point you can't hine that it's the lower educated and sorry yes the below average intelligence are voting this way on a massive scale compared to other demographics. Dismissing them because they are is wrong but you have to also accept the 'intellectual' hard to explain (because things are complicated) argument is not going to work on them. It's the difference between "It's hard to explain so I won't but trust me I'm right" and distilling that explanation into a simple to understand sentence. Not suggesting it's the only thing but it is how populists win.

Maybe, but to suggest that only unintellectual people voted for one whilst only intellectuals voted for another is also incorrect. There are also different levels of intellect. Let's take Ben Carson for instance. He's a brilliant intellect on the field of medicine and neurology. But in Public Speaking and Politics, he's very poor on an intellectual front.

The thing is you can't point the finger to a group or class and say they are right or wrong. No matter what the intellect is of people, each individual has a way of thinking, and what is important for them. And they use that in the way they vote. If I was american, I would have voted Republican, no matter who the candidate was. I like to see myself as an intellectual person, and I wouldn't care if someone said to me I voted wrong or right. At least I wouldn't have been the only one that voted that way.