A Political Thread

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

It's not really that close at all Trump is still running incredibly uphill to get the electoral college although 'it's possible' he might win the popular vote

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_elections_electoral_college_map.html

The latest e-mail stuff is unlikely to sway voters but may reduce turnout. The problem is while it may increase Trump rhetoric nothing has been revealed other than the investigation being reopened someone voting Hillary is unlikely to change their minds at this point.

The BBC (and others) have written good articles to explain why Brexit style shock is unlikely to happen. Main reason being whilst the final result of Brexit was a shock we all knew it was incredibly close going in (re-qriting of history seams to be it was clear we'd remain beforehand and it was landslide victory for leave). Whilst I convinced myself by the time I'd gone to sleep that night remain would win (Farage had conceded after polls closed), I was by no means confident going into polling day.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37736161

Told you it was close.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Running to the right is not the answer for many of these people. They'll likely get shafted by the system even more.


Hillary refusing to concede today/night it may not be over yet. Feel she is clutching at straws.

I think with Brexit and now looks like Trump, the message of is voting public have done this because they don't want more of the same; they are sick of it, so when someone like Trump and Farage offers this magic solution then their thinking is - why not; to hell with it. Logic doesn't come into it; Brexit and now this reaks of real anger that has built up for a long time. Even if it means running to the right.

I suspect it is only the start - a reaction to globalisation.

 

[ncurd]

Told you it was close.

Yeah I was wrong....too much faith in the world.

At least I can tell myself I couldn't do anything this time unlike Brexit. Every American I know voted for Hillary and I only visited New York.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

New York is rock solid Democrat. It's those Swing States like Florida, Ohio, North Carolina who were always going to decide it.

 

[saulan]

So am I one of the minorities here that think Trump will be the better president out of the 2 candidates??

I'm sure there are others, but I would assume you are in the minority. Any person who consistently lies throughout debates and speeches, aggresively divides his country on racial, religious and immigrant lines and seems to be leading the way for a major deterioration of international relations should not be a president in my view.

I feel a lot of criticism must go to the Democrats on this, they put forward a candidate who had a high dislike factor within the nation who really wasn't seen as someone you could rely on not to be influenced by major corporations. Being up against Trump you really would think it would be theirs to lose, especially with how he has behaved throughout the campaign period.

 

[McTallshort]

Just wrote this on Facebook I've taken out the stuff which was a bitime more for the demographic ofor who I'm friend with,

Look I get the anger at establishment politics, it makes perfect sense you want to go against a system when you're at the lowest rungs of the ladder. I've been voting for the underdog my entire adult life who have no hope of forming a majority government and got shafted in a coalition one. But the answer is not to run to the Farages and Trump's of this world that's exactly what the Germans did in the 30's (yes Godwin's Law sue me).

The problem is I have zero idea how to win these people back to even convince them it's the wrong path. I'm the exact liberal 'Elite'(read middle classish) they claim to despise so much.

Stop with this lower rung on the ladder crap. Just because someone doesnt waste 5 years of their life getting drunk at Uni or doesnt have time for liberal polices doesnt make them a pleb. Many people who voted Tory at the last election, voted out of the EU and now in America have voted for Trump are not dole dossing layabouts but successful people who run their own businesses, own property and have far more common sense than your average self obsorbed graduate.

This isnt some protest vote. The leave vote also wasnt a protest vote and the tories winning the last election wasnt a protest vote.

When are people like you just going to exept that not everyone agrees with you or the course you want to take the country.

 

[ncurd]

I think with Brexit and now looks like Trump, the message of is voting public have done this because they don't want more of the same; they are sick of it, so when someone like Trump and Farage offers this magic solution then their thinking is - why not; to hell with it. Logic doesn't come into it; Brexit and now this reaks of real anger that has built up for a long time. Even if it means running to the right.

I suspect it is only the start - a reaction to globalisation.

I get the frustration but can we run to.the.left towards Sanders' magic bullet instead....please?

Here's where I start struggling why is globalisation a bad thing?

This is why I despair going to Trump is so against my politics in terms of societal structures. I have zero idea how to bring those voters my way now...

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Time for the trump voters to be dissapointed.

I really really can't see him doing the majoirty of the things he said.


Also hopefully kick the dems up the bum about the whole Bernie thing.


At least the uk didn't have the dumbest voting result this year.

 

[ncurd]

Stop with this lower rung on the ladder crap.

When are people like you just going to exept that not everyone agrees with you or the course you want to take the country.

I suggest you look at voter breakdown of who's voting for what.

The middle part of your post is just a load horse****t.

Some I'm supposed to give up on everything I belive in because the last 2 years of elections went against me. Even though we were barely headed in that direction anyway. The only policy a goverment here has done that I've remotely celebrated was the marriage equality act.

 

[McTallshort]

I suggest you look at voter breakdown of who's voting for what.

The middle part of your post is just a load horse****t.

Some I'm supposed to give up on everything I belive in because the last 2 years of elections went against me. Even though we were barely headed in that direction anyway. The only policy a goverment here has done that I've remotely celebrated was the marriage equality act.

Im not saying you should give up but you should stop treating everything that goes against you as some mass protest of the old and poor like there is some reason the simple folk dont agree with you because you are so right and they are obviously so wrong.

 

[TRF_heineken]

There's no need to make this personal guys. This thread is hanging on a very thin thread of still being open, and we have been very lenient in what is being said here. But try to keep the personal attacks to a minimum.

This is one area where many will differ in opinion. Just like religion. Everyone has the right to give their opinions, but there is really no need to attack each other.

 

[ncurd]

Im not saying you should give up but you should stop treating everything that goes against you as some mass protest of the old and poor like there is some reason the simple folk dont agree with you because you are so right and they are obviously so wrong.

I actually get into trouble in actual life for getting frustrated that people don't keep up with me (on matters which are not subjective). So I get into more trouble for treating people as 'smart' as me (I hate calling myself that).

When I talk about lowest rungs of the ladder were talking about the poorest in society, the actual disenfranchised voters, businessmen who vote tory they are already actively engaged in the political process. They read real news not made up tabloid chap and forumulate and opinion. It is incredibly unlikely someone can convince them to vote otherwise and those parts of demographics always vote and they'll always vote one way with little variance. Bankers, Business Owners those sorts of people have high turnout and almost exclusively vote right. Teachers, Doctors, Nurses and the like lean left and again that rarely changes.

What you have to look at is not usually voters, on the Brexit vote we had the highest turnout for a vote in history. Why are they voting? Why are they voting for something that will make them worse off(IMO but prices are going up even more than previous inflation their wages still aren't still)? So you read what they are.saying and their argument are so flawed with little basis in fact because they believe tabloid garbage (Mail and Scum, Mirrors not any better). They are.be living the lies so much that any attempt at reason just doesn't work. I've seen it my own in-laws which is the closest I get in my walk of life unfortunately I live in very much an echo chamber.

Here's one for you NHS privatisation is up posed to be brilliant. A Tory tells a Nurse friend well you'll get higher wages now. Except every element of the NHS I know that has been privatised were hiring people with less care skills, minimum wages and the banew of all existence zero hours contracts.

 

[ncurd]

The only good for this is the American markets are now tanking so the pound should help against the dollar.

However that does make the Euro rather attractive.....I was talking about good was I?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Can't believe it.
****ing mental.
An openly racist, misogynistic, bigoted president of the most powerful nation on Earth. Worrying times ahead.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I get the frustration but can we run to.the.left towards Sanders' magic bullet instead....please?

Here's where I start struggling why is globalisation a bad thing?

This is why I despair going to Trump is so against my politics in terms of societal structures. I have zero idea how to bring those voters my way now...

The leftish wing had their chance with Obama - Obamacare etc. Saunders was more left than him, but couldn't win the Democratic nomination, so it's a moot point.

Globalisation maybe good at a macro level, but at a micro level, I think a lot of people feel it is not working for them. The loss of identity (jobs) is a big thing, as well as the changing demographics of their communities and perhaps they just feel swallowed up by it (that's my theory). Brexit and Trump are voters trying to reclaim back their identity and saying no this pace of change to a global world is happening too fast for me and this is my chance to put a break on it; if I don't then it is more of the same old, same old. The right offers them more answers than the left or the answers they want right now.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Can't believe it.
****ing mental.
An openly racist, misogynistic, bigoted president of the most powerful nation on Earth. Worrying times ahead.

Watch out!! ISIS will soon be known as WASWAS

 

[saulan]

Watch out!! ISIS will soon be known as WASWAS

On that note, Isis has generally stuck to striking against countries that are anti-islamic. If Trump does keep up his anti-islam rhetoric, I think America will become a bigger target for attacks.

 

[ncurd]

The leftish wing had their chance with Obama - Obamacare etc. Saunders was more left than him, but couldn't win the Democratic nomination, so it's a moot point.

Your stuff about globalisation was fair I'm just not sure how you convince people that their feeling is wrong. Or more importantly that the people you are voting for are the exploiters in Trump.

On Obama the hostile Congress pretty much tied both hands behind his back. He pretty much did all he could. I think we'll ll wonder just how different things would be if he could of actually enacted his vision.

- - - Updated - - -

On that note, Isis has generally stuck to striking against countries that are anti-islamic. If Trump does keep up his anti-islam rhetoric, I think America will become a bigger target for attacks.

The scary thing is ISIS is beginning to be in its death throes as a large occupier of land. Just in time.probably for Trump to.claim it as he defeated ISIS in February.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I really can't see this as anything other than one of the biggest protest votes in history. Trump's a 70 year old with a nice line in aggressive, populist rhetoric, but no political experience, few discernible policies and a talent for causing offence. Americans have however voted for him and now they'll have to take the consequences. I just hope that he will have a very strong advisory team around him and that the realities of high office quickly sink in.

How many of the secret service in the presidential detail will be willing to take a bullet for this president? Not impossible that one of them may have to.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I am fascinated about the polls though.

Trouble is the silent right vote is a lot bigger than experts are expecting.

If you where studying politics in 2016 it would be a dream come true.




Wonder how this will affect Brexit? Trump is very much pro UK and Anti EU but will he keep to that, and what will the EU's response be?