A Political Thread pt. 2

[ChicagoKid]

For labour, Corbyn was straight out of central casting. I'd bet less than 1% of Americans could have recognized him or told you a single thing he stood for.

This Keir fellow has a great name and even better hair, but honestly, he just seems extremely weak and feeble.

His attempts to argue the UK has free speech like the US was wrong and felt like the unpopular kid say something to ingratiate himself with the "cool" kids.

I don't see Keir and Trump/Vance getting along.

 

[McTallshort]

Maybe it will raise my status here, but I truly never liked David Cameron. Guy reeked of holier than thou character.

I liked Blair. Not even the war stuff and being Bush' lapdog. He was extremely charismatic.

Rishi appeared to be the best the Tories have had in several decades but faced extreme headwinds.

Cameron and his chancellor Osborne pushed austerity on the UK while borrowing massively at the same which led to lack of investment but higher national debt which was fine when interest rates were low buts it's a nightmare now. Also voting for Brexit in 2016 but not getting it done for another 4 years also hit investment. Rishi was the last grown up left after Truss had crashed the economy but the Tories had run their course after 14 years.

 

[ChicagoKid]

Cameron and his chancellor Osborne pushed austerity on the UK while borrowing massively at the same which led to lack of investment but higher national debt which was fine when interest rates were low buts it's a nightmare now. Also voting for Brexit in 2016 but not getting it done for another 4 years also hit investment. Rishi was the last grown up left after Truss had crashed the economy but the Tories had run their course after 14 years.

So what's Keir's plan?

 

[Saintjay]

Besides "It's the Tories fault", is there a good explanation for the current state of the UK? They simply don't care as you said?

I'm not trying to be ignorant or rude or a loud mouthed America , but the current state of Wales and many former industrial parts around the UK seem economically dire.

Some towns are similar in situation to places that were the rust belt in the States.

Other factors - Brexit hasn't helped. Unemployed rates across the G7 is around 4.3%. we are at 4.4%. so pretty par.

Realistically we are not dying. I say we are similar to most comparable European countries. Probably not as bad as German, we have lower unemployment than France etc. Swings and round abouts. Could be better in somethings and worse in others.

 

[dirty harry]

No it doesn't. It looks like Trumps begging for a truce and Putin can take or leave it because he's the powerful leader showing up the west. It shows him as strong, intelligent and powerful. He's literally playing the world's most powerful country. That's big for Russians

Mate you want that too bad, as a neutral observer that is not how it is viewed at all...

Like I said, I think the most likely outcomes are Trump gaming with both Netenyahu and Putin to talk peace but allow carte blaclnche, or Zelensky has poked the bear straight away to disrupt any peace talks that don't include him.

Realistically, Putin is the only one of the 3 who is experienced at this, Trump is an inherited billionaire trust fund baby who did reality TV, and Zelensky is a comedian Insta famous thot who got 112% of the vote lol.

I just don't see the motivation for Putin, whereas Trump and Zelensky have clear motivations for their actions

 

[Weldit]

Besides "It's the Tories fault", is there a good explanation for the current state of the UK? They simply don't care as you said?

I'm not trying to be ignorant or rude or a loud mouthed America , but the current state of Wales and many former industrial parts around the UK seem economically dire.

Historical reasons, but large parts of the UK never recovered from the manufacturing collapse. When the factories etc closed down very little was put in it's place leading to a decline. It is easy to blame the tories and a lot of how it was handled was down to them, but it's more complex than that. The issues were never resolved and London moved on to focus mainly on services for wealth.

 

[dirty harry]

So what's Keir's plan?

Based on Rachel from accounts actions, keep pushing pressure on the most vulnerable until they die off and our stats look better...

 

[McTallshort]

So what's Keir's plan?

A bit of this and a bit of that but I'm not convinced about Rachel Reeves as chancellor. They seem to be trying to reform the NHS and they have brought the waiting lists down but unless the economy starts picking up they will be out after 4 years. Not sure what you mean about free speech people here seem quite happy with what they can say or do.

 

[McTallshort]

Mate you want that too bad, as a neutral observer that is not how it is viewed at all...

Like I said, I think the most likely outcomes are Trump gaming with both Netenyahu and Putin to talk peace but allow carte blaclnche, or Zelensky has poked the bear straight away to disrupt any peace talks that don't include him.

Realistically, Putin is the only one of the 3 who is experienced at this, Trump is an inherited billionaire trust fund baby who did reality TV, and Zelensky is a comedian Insta famous thot who got 112% of the vote lol.

I just don't see the motivation for Putin, whereas Trump and Zelensky have clear motivations for their actions

You don't come across as neutral but thats your view and we won't agree

 

[dirty harry]

A bit of this and a bit of that but I'm not convinced about Rachel Reeves as chancellor. They seem to be trying to reform the NHS and they have brought the waiting lists down but unless the economy starts picking up they will be out after 4 years. Not sure what you mean about free speech people here seem quite happy with what they can say or do.

We were so close to agreeing on something until you mentioned people enjoying speech censorship in the UK lol.

Let's ignore that part and focus on Rachel from accounts.

I'm really concerned about this NHS England plot...

 

[dirty harry]

You don't come across as neutral but thats your view and we won't agree

But my view is anti Trump and Anti Zelensky in this scenario, your anti Trump in every scenario, regardless of what that is. If you blame him for the winter fuel payments being taken away... hahahahahaah

 

[ChicagoKid]

A bit of this and a bit of that but I'm not convinced about Rachel Reeves as chancellor. They seem to be trying to reform the NHS and they have brought the waiting lists down but unless the economy starts picking up they will be out after 4 years. Not sure what you mean about free speech people here seem quite happy with what they can say or do.

I'm not saying they aren't happy. But as @dirty harry said, he tried to argue we are equivalent which is not true. He seemed like a desperate attempt to find common ground with Trump.

 

[Weldit]

Cameron and his chancellor Osborne pushed austerity on the UK while borrowing massively at the same which led to lack of investment but higher national debt which was fine when interest rates were low buts it's a nightmare now. Also voting for Brexit in 2016 but not getting it done for another 4 years also hit investment. Rishi was the last grown up left after Truss had crashed the economy but the Tories had run their course after 14 years.

I honestly think the history books will not look kindly at Cameron/Osborne. They took us on the route to where we are now. Brexit, Farage, QE etc.

 

[McTallshort]

But my view is anti Trump and Anti Zelensky in this scenario, your anti Trump in every scenario, regardless of what that is. If you blame him for the winter fuel payments being taken away... hahahahahaah

Like I said we won't agree. If you look back on my comments I was slightly optimistic that Trump would take a tough line with Putin but he hasn't and to me he's being played. But again we won't agree

 

[dirty harry]

I'm not saying they aren't happy. But as @dirty harry said, he tried to argue we are equivalent which is not true. He seemed like a desperate attempt to find common ground with Trump.

I've recently debated this with my German in laws, they are 100% convinced they have total freedom of speech in Germany, and they are not censored whatsoever, because hate speech is illegal and should be punished, they also believe AFD, and anyone who opposes their beloved CDU views should not be allowed to run for government, and slyly want to rid Germany of Turkish populations, and they see absolutely no irony or fascist thought in that whatsoever.

They also beleive charities shouldn't be a thing, and governments should solve all of societies problems, working a civil job is seen as the highest honour...

We don't talk politics much obviously, I can't here that without wanting to pull my hair out.

 

[Welsh Exile]

For labour, Corbyn was straight out of central casting. I'd bet less than 1% of Americans could have recognized him or told you a single thing he stood for.

This Keir fellow has a great name and even better hair, but honestly, he just seems extremely weak and feeble.

His attempts to argue the UK has free speech like the US was wrong and felt like the unpopular kid say something to ingratiate himself with the "cool" kids.

I don't see Keir and Trump/Vance getting along.

I don't think he said it was like the US. Just that he is proud of the history of free speech in the UK. I can see the arguments against hate speech but to pretend that we don't have free speech in the UK is at best disingenuous.

 

[McTallshort]

I'm not saying they aren't happy. But as @dirty harry said, he tried to argue we are equivalent which is not true. He seemed like a desperate attempt to find common ground with Trump.

Like I said yesterday the whole freedom of speech thing is a left hand issue designed to keep people from looking at other things. It's part of the whole culture war piece I wish would stay in the US

 

[dirty harry]

I honestly think the history books will not look kindly at Cameron/Osborne. They took us on the route to where we are now. Brexit, Farage, QE etc.

So, was Brexit a failure? I think we can all agree it was, but was it a failure of idea, or was it a failure of execution?

Every single person I speak with agree it was a failure, but the ALL blame the other team for the failure, non organisation of immigration, increasing immigration, and opposition undermining negotiations with the EU...

And the other side playing I told you so, because the dirty little poor people didn't understand what they were voting for.

I find these conversations interesting with a bit of truth from both sides.

 

[Welsh Exile]

So, was Brexit a failure? I think we can all agree it was, but was it a failure of idea, or was it a failure of execution?

Both obviously. It was a shoot yourself in the foot idea and we ended up putting 2 in our head.

 

[dirty harry]

I don't think he said it was like the US. Just that he is proud of the history of free speech in the UK. I can see the arguments against hate speech but to pretend that we don't have free speech in the UK is at best disingenuous.

Of course we don't. I don't want to get back into it, I'm an adult.... I'm fine!