A Political Thread pt. 2

[Which Tyler]

Yeah, not so.much a surprise, as the explicit purpose

 

[ncurd]

Whats to stop democrats signing up and then donating to Harris' Penn campaign?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Whats to stop democrats signing up and then donating to Harris' Penn campaign?

Principles

 

[Saintjay]

Much of nothing i think. Possibly not good for relations if Trump wins. That's about it.

 

[Becca]

Much of nothing i think. Possibly not good for relations if Trump wins. That's about it.
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Why are they wasting money sending members over there anyway ?

 

[ncurd]

Why are they wasting money sending members over there anyway ?

As far as I can tell neither the Democratic or Labour party are paying for it. Unlikely its the government either.

And it's also nothing new. Plus people from all walks of life go to volunteer to get involved in foreign elections for parties or front they agree with. We just don't talk about it because it's a nothing story.

This is probably some rich doner stumping up the cash the parties facilitating it.

 

[General Melchett]

What a ridiculous bit of hypocrisy.

Not only have we had Truss over attending Trump rallies but I watched the orange one admit two days ago that he "regularly talks to Bibi" and that he talked to him a few days ago. It's so obvious that Netanyahu is coordinating with the Trump campaign and Republicans in order to try and help him win.

Tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians get killed under the Democrats watch and then Arab/Muslim Americans in swing states will blame them and either abstain or vote for Trump. It's probably going to work too.

The Democrats were screwed and in a no win situation because not supporting Israel would have been even more costly. It's no coincidence that the war has dragged out this long with things escalating just before the US election. Netanyahu and the Republicans have played a blinder in getting the Democrats to take the blame and pay the price for their war. Muslim/Arab Americans are deluded if they think things are going to get better for Palestine under Trump.

 

[Which Tyler]

The rule of thumb is "If Trump is accusing someone of something, it's because he's doing it"

He benefitted from genuine interference in the 2016 election from a foreign power (Russia), and he's befitting from genuine interference this year from a foreign power (Israel).

As far as I can tell, there's literally nothing in the story of labour party interference; but there is a tonne in the above 2 examples.

 

[Saintjay]

To be honest I think given what happened a year ago. Israel would have taken this course of action regardless.

The Dems handling of the crisis has been poor.

Even if realistically the Dems are dammed if they do and if they don't. They are either upsetting the Jewish or Palestinian groups no matter what they do.

 

[General Melchett]

To be honest I think given what happened a year ago. Israel would have taken this course of action regardless.

The Dems handling of the crisis has been poor.

Even if realistically the Dems are dammed if they do and if they don't. They are either upsetting the Jewish or Palestinian groups no matter what they do.

October 7th was a major trigger point but we were told the Gaza operation would be over in a few days.

Everyone can see that the war has been dragged out. He's not interested in diplomacy or hostage release deals. It won't end while Biden is President. Netanyahu will want it to end with Trump in the Whitehouse so that he can let him take the win and he himself is politically secure.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

US judge reduces possible 20 years in jail for a variety of crimes by Lauren Boebert's son to just 80 hours of community service:


How the **** is this even allowed? This is corruption of the highest order. The same people going on about throwing the book at Hunter Biden will be deathly silent on this, whilst simultaneously screaming about how there is a 2 tier justice system harming the right wing.

 

[Welsh Exile]

The old reperations argument doing the rounds again. It is a tricky one and I can see both sides but I'm going for no, unless all the Tory membership have to pay it in which case crack on.

Edit: Are they having this debate in Ireland as well?

 

[ncurd]

The old reperations argument doing the rounds again. It is a tricky one and I can see both sides but I'm going for no, unless all the Tory membership have to pay it in which case crack on.

Edit: Are they having this debate in Ireland as well?

Its one of those things your essentially asking should the ancestors of those who committed crimes pay for repreations to the ancestors of those it was was perpetuated to. It will forever remain a intellectual debate however nobody is gonna pay out.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Plus you have silly situations where you have people who immigrated here from the countries asking for reparations who would then have to pay those reparations, despite being descendents of the victims.

It also falsely acts like most people in this country benefitted when most people in this country lived in poverty until fairly recently, with just a small segment of society having the wealth. If we are asked to pay reparations, the decedents if the people who actually benefited from slavery won't pay it, the cost will be passed on to everyone else.

I think the idea of punishing the decedents for the acts of their ancestors is wrong, I think doing so collectively based on nationality is even more wrong and I think doing so collectively based on race is just flat out racism.

 

[General Melchett]

They can keep the British taxpayer out of it as far as I'm concerned. The crown was the only beneficiary and so it's their problem. Most of the land they own in England was taken by force and isn't even on the Land Registry because it wasn't purchased legally. They used to send the heavies round, chop a few heads off before claiming it as their own. I can't see those wrongs being righted any time soon. They're still milking it with this new wind farm off the south coast with profits going straight to the crown with both the Tories and Labour happy to sit back and let it happen. As if they need the money.

They won't pay any reparations as it just opens a massive can of worms. It'll be interesting to see if any commonwealth nations threaten to leave though. I wouldn't be surprised if some countries keep banging the drum with some referenda on the cards.

None of it happened on Charles watch and so it's not his fault but I'm not opposed to him apologising on behalf of his dead ancestors as a starting point. It's low hanging fruit apologising for something you didn't do. At the same time I can understand why he's not doing that as it'd be leapt on as an admission of fault and strengthens the reparations argument.

 

[Saintjay]

Seems like it's all a suped up where there's blame there's a claim advert.

Pretty sure Blair apologised when PM and Charlie has.

Still I just think it's all to murky and where do you draw a line in the sand. Unfortunately slavery has under some form been a part of most countries histories if you look back enough.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Just more American culture war nonsense, best ignored

 

[Welsh Exile]

I generally agree with all the points being made but the only thing I would say, in historical terms, the empire/slavery etc was pretty recent so it's not like we're talking 2000 years ago and the Romans or what have you. But yeah, generally agree it's a pretty complex and ultimately nearly impossible to implement correctly. I agree with apologising though as you can recognise the history, apologise for wrongdoings, without admitting personal responsibility for something.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Also, I would say, that while it's certainly true that 99% of people in Britain at the time didn't benefit at the time, it is undeniable that, as a country, we have certainly benefited from the slave trade which has naturally had positive outcomes for a lot of people to this day as it generally increased our standing. Slavery was pretty crucial in making the British empire what it was.

Not saying I think reparations is the way to go, just as I wouldn't suggest that all Americas , Canadians, Australians, kiwis etc etc should be forcibly removed from their counties and relocated but an admission of how these countries got to where they are is important.

Not to bring up the whole Isreal thing but it's similar to that, I think most agree how Isreal was created was a bad thing by today's standards but it is what it is now. But it would be good for UK, France etc to accept the part they played for the mess that region finds itself in now.

 

[General Melchett]

How British people benefitted from slavery is a very difficult thing to measure IMO. Yes some wealth/benefit will have trickled down from the crown but the country has since been through two world wars with a lot of infrastructure flattened and industries bankrupt. Like many other countries we've had to rebuild almost from scratch.

The key thing for me is who were the people in power and the decision makers re. slavery. I doubt there was a mandate from the people to crack on with it. Look at the post office investigation. It's the decision makers / ex board members being interviewed, held to account and rightly so.