A Political Thread pt. 2

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Re the protests, people absolutely have a right to protest.

Just as those with legitimate concerns about migration levels shouldn't march alongside the EDL though, those choosing to go to these marches in good faith should seriously consider who they are marching with, and what their chants (including, but not limited "from the river to the sea") mean.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I mean from the river to the sea chant seems to mean something differently depending on who you ask

"From the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free"

For me doesn't seem threatening, I understand some people do. But what's the threatening language in the chant? Considering you have the West Bank which is literally on the river Jordan border and the Gaza Strip along the sea.

I feel with that chant people see what they want to see I guess

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I mean from the river to the sea chant seems to mean something differently depending on who you ask

"From the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free"

For me doesn't seem threatening, I understand some people do. But what's the threatening language in the chant? Considering you have the West Bank which is literally on the river Jordan border and the Gaza Strip along the sea.

I feel with that chant people see what they want to see I guess

It's use mostly comes from the PNC's initial charters, which called for Israel to be completely removed from the map. It's been used by Hamas and PIJ etc since that.

People can tell themselves whatever they want about it to make themselves feel better, but it is a slogan which calls for the extermination of Israel, used by those who want to see the destruction of Jewish people worldwide.

 

[Gavin]

Netanyahu rejected ceasefire-for-hostages deal in Gaza, sources say

Israeli PM said to have turned down proposal in early talks and continues to take tough line

www.theguardian.com

Benjamin Netanyahu rejected a deal for a five-day ceasefire with Palestinian militant groups in Gaza in return for the release of some of the hostages held in the territory, according to sources familiar with the negotiations.

I mean if true, the whole case that the bombardments is for the return of the hostages goes out the window

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I mean if true, the whole case that the bombardments is for the return of the hostages goes out the window

I thought Israel had been pretty open that their aim is to completely wipe out Hamas?

Which, realistically, is never going to happen - especially with their leaders all living in Qatar and pulling the strings from there

Ceasefire is a tough sell to Israel as Hamas have said they won't honour it - while Iron Dome takes care of the missiles attacks, you can understand their unwillingness to allow hamas to regather and refocus, as Oct 7th happened during a ceasefire

Really don't know how this can come to an end, especially as Hamas have made clear they don't care about Palestine/Palestinians
One of their leaders said, a day or two ago,

"Hamas's goal is not to run Gaza and to bring it water and electricity and such,
This battle was not because we wanted fuel or laborers," al-Hayya said. "It did not seek to improve the situation in Gaza. This battle is to completely overthrow the situation."

Hamas leaders say they have no regrets after the October 7 attack and the goal was to 'overthrow' the status quo

Hamas officials defended the October 7 attacks despite Israel's brutal response, saying it "woke the world from a deep sleep."

www.businessinsider.com

They care about violence and bloodshed, nothing more,
Considering that's what Nethanyu wants, and that the whole country has its backs up after Oct 7th - how do you broker peace under those circumstances?

 

[Saintjay]

I mean from the river to the sea chant seems to mean something differently depending on who you ask

"From the river to the sea, Palestine shall be free"

For me doesn't seem threatening, I understand some people do. But what's the threatening language in the chant? Considering you have the West Bank which is literally on the river Jordan border and the Gaza Strip along the sea.

I feel with that chant people see what they want to see I guess

What i don't get is if numerous jewish people see it as 'hate speech' and that it's divisive and inflammatory, then why chant it. The same for chanting 'intifada'. It doesn't matter how others see it, some people see it as hurtful and wrong. Simply just don't do it.

It just seems double standards when people call out a home secretary for divisive and inflammatory language. Yet find excuses for the same behaviour because they personality don't find it offensive.

 

[General Melchett]

I don't know what Braverman's game is. It's almost like she's goading Sunak into sacking her so that it'll de-stabilise the Govt and force an election or leadership challenge. Clearly she wants to be the next party leader and has a chunk of the right wing on her side. It's almost like she knows if he sacks her the letters of no confidence will start flying in. She's a nasty piece of work who is starting to make Priti Patel not look so horrendous.

 

[Which Tyler]

She's a nasty piece of work who is starting to make Priti Patel not look so horrendous.

Cruella may be worse than Umbrage, but let's not get carried away here.

 

[General Melchett]

Cruella may be worse than Umbrage, but let's not get carried away here.

They're both horrendous tbf. Maybe its Theresa May who doesn't look so bad compared with those two.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

What i don't get is if numerous jewish people see it as 'hate speech' and that it's divisive and inflammatory, then why chant it. The same for chanting 'intifada'. It doesn't matter how others see it, some people see it as hurtful and wrong. Simply just don't do it.

It just seems double standards when people call out a home secretary for divisive and inflammatory language. Yet find excuses for the same behaviour because they personality don't find it offensive.

I think it's a bit more nuanced than that for Palestinians, calling a spade a spade it's their land and home and they're being oppressed by foreign planters (see any other 20th Centure British drawn map and you'll get one if not both). Them wanting their home back doesn't necessarily equate to supporting genocide (although for Hamas and their supporters it is).

Anyone with a degree of separation realises that Israel have planted themselves so well that there is no humane or fair way to get rid of the country at this point regardless of whether you think it should exist or not. This isn't quite as reasonable to ask of someone who's parents or grandparents were ran out of their home by aggressive planters.

All that to say, I think it's one that native Palestinians should not be considered anti-Semitic just for chanting it and for that I can't really consider hate speech myself. Not to say I'd be caught chanting it.

 

[Saintjay]

I don't know what Braverman's game is. It's almost like she's goading Sunak into sacking her so that it'll de-stabilise the Govt and force an election or leadership challenge. Clearly she wants to be the next party leader and has a chunk of the right wing on her side. It's almost like she knows if he sacks her the letters of no confidence will start flying in. She's a nasty piece of work who is starting to make Priti Patel not look so horrendous.

Some commentators think she'll be toast next week.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

She's clearly positioning herself as the favourite for the ultra far right part of the party in the hopes of sweeping in when Sunak fails and trying to rile up the nationalist vote. Nationalism traditionally rises in periods of hardship and the Tories have heaped a fuckton of hardship on people. Now she has to establish her "I'm not part of the establishment" and victimhood credentials, what better way to do that than also throwing as much red meat to her base as she can?

 

[McTallshort]

I always thought someone like this wouldn't happen in the UK

Marjorie Taylor Greene - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

But now we have a right wing psycho as home secretary

 

[McTallshort]

She's clearly positioning herself as the favourite for the ultra far right part of the party in the hopes of sweeping in when Sunak fails and trying to rile up the nationalist vote. Nationalism traditionally rises in periods of hardship and the Tories have heaped a fuckton of hardship on people. Now she has to establish her "I'm not part of the establishment" and victimhood credentials, what better way to do that than also throwing as much red meat to her base as she can?

Is that going to get her elected though?

 

[Saintjay]

I always thought someone like this wouldn't happen in the UK

Marjorie Taylor Greene - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

But now we have a right wing psycho as home secretary

Lauren Boebert is equally just the charmer

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Our crazies are currently cycled out but they still control the house through the republicans slim majority the same way the uk wackos are influencing the commons. You guys still have another year and they aren't even acting like re-election is a goal.

Do love the Christmas cards with automatic rifles though.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Is that going to get her elected though?

Probably not but I think we are going the same way as the USA, the extremists have lost all grip on reality and seem to think doubling and tripling down on what their extremists want is what the county want.

 

[Amiga500]

Is that going to get her elected though?

Might get her leadership of the tory party.
Which means electable in the same way Liz Truss is electable.

 

[Saintjay]

Is that going to get her elected though?

Maybe head of a Tory party sat across the other side. Bar an absolute nightmare Starmer will be PM. He'll ride a wave of blaming the Tories for a few years. Then like the Tories he (his government) either then **** it up, people get bored of the excuses or factions of the party turn on him. Rinse repeat back to a Tory government then back to Labour.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]