A Political Thread pt. 2

[Welsh Exile]

I must admit I'm very uninformed on the whole JK Rawlings thing (and trans stuff in general tbh)

I initially couldn't really see any problem with what she was saying but partly listened to some podcast with her on and she is definite transphoboc or borderline at best. She's clever enough not to say anything outwardly transphobic but you can tell she has an issue with them. As I say I'm uninformed on it though and open to change my mind on it/her

Don't like the idea of trans women playing elite level sport though. School and amateur level I don't see an issue really.

 

[Which Tyler]

Cancel culture: not spending your money on something, and encouraging others to do likewise.
Not cancel culture: arresting people for thought crimes, banning books from libraries and banning "the wrong" people from public spaces.

(I've long gotten part the fact that anyone who suggests JK Rowling isn't transphoboc is clearly being very selectictive in what they are paying attention to).

TBF, I think there's a lot of people who aren't being selective in what they pay attention to, so much as not paying much attention to that issue or that person. Rowling's transphobia really isn't something that's been shoved down the throats of anyone who doesn't really care about celebrities, and isn't personally affected by transphobia.

I am a middle-aged cis hetro white man; and I consider myself an interested ally of the LGBT+ community, and I support trans rights (and gives not one damn about celebrity gossip, and specifically for this example, I'm not a gamer).
My experience was being told that Rowling was transphobic, but not being shown it, and only that much because I try to educate myself on these things. To find the actual examples I had to go hunting for myself. If I hadn't been interested, and reading topics about it, I'd probably have seen the odd reference here or there, and not looked into it, and been vaguely aware that there are accusations but not being sure what of.
I think maybe 1-2 articles turned up on my social media feeds about Hogwarts Legacy, and people boycotting it, and other people being upset by the boycott - I probably only saw that much because Facebook randomly decided that at least 1 in 10 of the posts I want to see must involve Harry Potter (I have no idea why it decided this, and I can't make it change its mind).
Otherwise, it was by reading threads on LGBT+ issues, on "woke" and "cancel culture" that I came across it (but facebook doesn't think I'm interested in such things, for equally inexplicable reasons).

 

[ncurd]

I must admit I'm very uninformed on the whole JK Rawlings thing (and trans stuff in general tbh)

I initially couldn't really see any problem with what she was saying but partly listened to some podcast with her on and she is definite transphoboc or borderline at best. She's clever enough not to say anything outwardly transphobic but you can tell she has an issue with them. As I say I'm uninformed on it though and open to change my mind on it/her

Don't like the idea of trans women playing elite level sport though. School and amateur level I don't see an issue really.

I think it was the moment she lost her **** online over words "people with periods" that was a real mask off moment for many. She also has a tendency to hang out with anti trans groups like the LGB Alliance and share think pieces by very anti-trans groups. Not to mention people she's supported for being assholes in the work place. You add it all up and there is only one conclusion. If she hadn't wrote books dear to many she would of been disowned by media ages ago. Its actually scary for trabs people how much power she wields because in many people eyes author of beloved children's books can do no wrong.

It's like uour racist uncle he doesn't actually say anything outright racist but says a lot that you know they are.

Sports is complicated there isn't enough study and diffrent sports are coming to diffrent conclusions. Like UCI and FINA. And it's also clear the advantages are diffrent in diffrent sports. You also don't want to destroy women's sports sport as a category. No right answer and both side are equally guilty of just jumping to conclusions. However the entire situation is overblown the amount of trans women competing at elite level

 

[Which Tyler]

I must admit I'm very uninformed on the whole JK Rawlings thing (and trans stuff in general tbh)

I initially couldn't really see any problem with what she was saying but partly listened to some podcast with her on and she is definite transphoboc or borderline at best. She's clever enough not to say anything outwardly transphobic but you can tell she has an issue with them. As I say I'm uninformed on it though and open to change my mind on it/her

Don't like the idea of trans women playing elite level sport though. School and amateur level I don't see an issue really.

I found this a fairly useful source of much of it, once I went hunting.
It's generally little bits here and there over a period of time, that show a descent from not really understanding, to doubling and tripling down on an issue and supporting people who are relatively hard-core.

Is J.K. Rowling transphobic? Let’s let her speak for herself.

An exhausting — if not exhaustive — timeline of J.K. Rowling’s transphobia.

www.vox.com

 

[Saintjay]

What vitoral? Some people refused to buy the game to not support a TERF who perpetually and cinsistently targets trans people online. (I've long gotten part the fact that anyone who suggests JK Rowling isn't transphoboc is clearly being very selectictive in what they are paying attention to).

It was all pretty weak sauce stuff, no organised review bombing or death threats to creators.

Unless you're saying you can't suggest prople take a moral stance over things anymore and tell other people why in a calm way.

As far as i know people did receive death threats for playing/streaming the game. Equally trans people receive threats online daily. Again i really do feel neither side at times particularly covers itself in glory. Maybe i should have said both extremes on either side are toxic and incapable of being calm.

You have Donald Trump and the Maga crowd saying "The goal of cancel culture is to make decent Americans live in fear of being fired, expelled, shamed, humiliated and driven from society as we know it," Whilst trying to cancel the left. It seems the left are saying exactly the same thing about the right. What is cancel culture other than mob rule on both sides, when claiming morals when those morals are shaped by religion, political views, what media they consume etc. Mother Teresa had morals but her morals on Roe v Wade for example were plainly wrong but still based on morals.

Is there a firm defintion of cancel culture?

Is J K Rowling a tranaphobic, yes i think she is. Am i transphobic playing Hogwarts Legacy as an endorsement and support of her views? Some will say i am, some not, take the below quote as an example.

."As long as you all support Harry Potter regardless of how hateful and deliberately malicious J.K. Rowling's statements become, you're saying trans people just don't matter as much as fictional wizards," wrote TheGamer's Stacey Henley.

In one way she's right i think. Yet i don't know if I'm right though.

Equally is it transphobic to say trans women should not compete in Elite womens sport. When ultimately they are women? Some will say yes, some no.

I sit firmly in the center politically seeing good and bad on both sides. I look at the questions above and don't have a bloody clue who's right or wrong. I feel like at times I'm watching monkeys in a zoo just throwing sh@t at each other.

 

[Welsh Exile]

As far as i know people did receive death threats for playing/streaming the game. Equally trans people receive threats online daily. Again i really do feel neither side at times particularly covers itself in glory. Maybe i should have said both extremes on either side are toxic and incapable of being calm.

You have Donald Trump and the Maga crowd saying "The goal of cancel culture is to make decent Americans live in fear of being fired, expelled, shamed, humiliated and driven from society as we know it," Whilst trying to cancel the left. It seems the left are saying exactly the same thing about the right. What is cancel culture other than mob rule on both sides, when claiming morals when those morals are shaped by religion, political views, what media they consume etc. Mother Teresa had morals but her morals on Roe v Wade for example were plainly wrong but still based on morals.

Is there a firm defintion of cancel culture?

Is J K Rowling a tranaphobic, yes i think she is. Am i transphobic playing Hogwarts Legacy as an endorsement and support of her views? Some will say i am, some not, take the below quote as an example.

."As long as you all support Harry Potter regardless of how hateful and deliberately malicious J.K. Rowling's statements become, you're saying trans people just don't matter as much as fictional wizards," wrote TheGamer's Stacey Henley.

In one way she's right i think. Yet i don't know if I'm right though.

Equally is it transphobic to say trans women should not compete in Elite womens sport. When ultimately they are women? Some will say yes, some no.

I sit firmly in the center politically seeing good and bad on both sides. I look at the questions above and don't have a bloody clue who's right or wrong. I feel like at times I'm watching monkeys in a zoo just throwing sh@t at each other.

Don't get me started on Mother Theresa. Not a good example of peak human morality, certainly not saint standard.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

As far as i know people did receive death threats for playing/streaming the game. Equally trans people receive threats online daily. Again i really do feel neither side at times particularly covers itself in glory. Maybe i should have said both extremes on either side are toxic and incapable of being calm.

You have Donald Trump and the Maga crowd saying "The goal of cancel culture is to make decent Americans live in fear of being fired, expelled, shamed, humiliated and driven from society as we know it," Whilst trying to cancel the left. It seems the left are saying exactly the same thing about the right. What is cancel culture other than mob rule on both sides, when claiming morals when those morals are shaped by religion, political views, what media they consume etc. Mother Teresa had morals but her morals on Roe v Wade for example were plainly wrong but still based on morals.

Is there a firm defintion of cancel culture?

Is J K Rowling a tranaphobic, yes i think she is. Am i transphobic playing Hogwarts Legacy as an endorsement and support of her views? Some will say i am, some not, take the below quote as an example.

."As long as you all support Harry Potter regardless of how hateful and deliberately malicious J.K. Rowling's statements become, you're saying trans people just don't matter as much as fictional wizards," wrote TheGamer's Stacey Henley.

In one way she's right i think. Yet i don't know if I'm right though.

Equally is it transphobic to say trans women should not compete in Elite womens sport. When ultimately they are women? Some will say yes, some no.

I sit firmly in the center politically seeing good and bad on both sides. I look at the questions above and don't have a bloody clue who's right or wrong. I feel like at times I'm watching monkeys in a zoo just throwing sh@t at each other.

Cancel culture is simply choosing not to give someone your custom or support and generally promoting others do likewise, usually because of a disagreement with an individual or company's views or policies. It is not force as it is simply withholding your own business and positive association. This is supposed to be the absolute cornerstone of free market capitalism, the ability to refuse to do business.

As soon as you start using the government or some organisation for force this, it stops being cancel culture.

 

[Saintjay]

So my understanding is there was an element of cancel culture to Hogwarts Legacy.

Having done some reading today I'm as confused today as yesterday if not more so.

Questions like, Can you truly be a supporter of LGBTQ+ rights. Whilst thinking they should be excluded from womens sport. Surely that's Trans Exclusionary and partly what J K Rowling is arguing for.

Can i be a trans ally by supporting Harry Potter / Hogwarts Legacy. It's ok though because i don't like JK Rowlings views.

I don't expect an answer on any of this. I find it all confusing and hypocritical on both sides, and know i am at times as well. I do think most people feel the same. Stuck between staying silent, but also knowing bad things happen when good people do nothing. Yet both sides of the argument scream pick a side and me average Joe is like f@cked if i know.

 

[Which Tyler]

I've always personally been in favour of separating the art from the artist - though there have been occasions where I've disliked an artist enough to refuse to give them my money.
Generally though, that's easy for me, as I tend not to hear about the dirty laundry of artists (or at least, not until it's way too late), and with my privileged demographic, I'm rarely directly affected.
Of course, social media means that we're all way more likely to hear about the dirty laundry in time to do something about it, even if it is to "just" feel guilty about enjoying the art anyway.

eg. Do I still listen to Eric Clapton? Yes
Will I buy more of his stuff? No, but... I probably wouldn't have even if I hadn't found out about his racist streak.

Do I still watch films with Harvey Weinstein influence? Yes
Will I buy more stuff he's been involved with? ... I dunno. He's not working in the industry anymore, so it'd be old stuff, but there's just so much of it; and those films are so collaborative, it'd feel a bit like victim blaming, as most of his victims seem to have appeared in his films - because that's the power he had over them.

Do I still read/watch the Potter books/movies? Yes - well, probably not anymore, but I'm not refusing to.
Will I play Hogwarts Legacy or watch the new TV series? ... I dunno. I won't play the game because it's not a game I'd play; I don't know if I'd watch the series if I didn't know about Rowling's transphobia; but I do and... would it still be "sticking it to Rowling" if boycotting the show meant that a trans CGI artist (for example) lost their job on it? Where would the balance between not supporting Rowling's transphobia, but supporting her otherwise feminist and racially progressive views (and indeed, LGB without the T)? What about the knock-on effects to... the other several thousand people who'd be involved in the process? I dunno - but to me, it's far from a black and white issue, and I'm not going to get exercised over someone else ultimately deciding differently to me.

 

[ncurd]

So my understanding is there was an element of cancel culture to Hogwarts Legacy.

Having done some reading today I'm as confused today as yesterday if not more so.

Questions like, Can you truly be a supporter of LGBTQ+ rights. Whilst thinking they should be excluded from womens sport. Surely that's Trans Exclusionary and partly what J K Rowling is arguing for.

Can i be a trans ally by supporting Harry Potter / Hogwarts Legacy. It's ok though because i don't like JK Rowlings views.

I don't expect an answer on any of this. I find it all confusing and hypocritical on both sides, and know i am at times as well. I do think most people feel the same. Stuck between staying silent, but also knowing bad things happen when good people do nothing. Yet both sides of the argument scream pick a side and me average Joe is like f@cked if i know.

In can you be ally absolutely the only people I ever see advocating trans women to partake in women's sport without any science behind it, don't watch/play sport. I don't think Ive ever seen a trans athletes say they should take part without any form of transition so clearly there's a limit.

On HP and other artists. I usually take to things from it one are a principal guiding artist? Do they stand to earn millions from it? Do they think people buying it is vindication for their views. Incidentally JKR has said she sees buying the computer game or seeing the films as support for her. (She's wrong).

I won't pretend none of these things aren't complex and it's okay to acknowledge that. What I dislike is inference than the trans community in general are being unreasonable when they rarely aren't.

 

[ncurd]

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Not surprising that Starkey is at heart a racist.

 

[Saintjay]

The blokes got form for it being kicked out of various fellowships in Cambridge. I'm still recovering from yesterday and learning Eric Clapton is a racist. At least Starkey's views aren't a suprise.

 

[Which Tyler]

I'm still recovering from yesterday and learning Eric Clapton is a racist.

Sorry

 

[Saintjay]

Sorry

No worries mate, I was just suprised given his playing is based on blues, Hendrix etc. Every days a school day.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Disappointing lack of dogs at the polling station after work,

My Tory councillor is all over the local Facebook groups today arguing with people saying they should vote for him because he's him/he's local and to ignore the big fat "CONSERVATIVE" next to his name - maybe the penny has started to drop for the Tories that they're an unfashionable brand

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Voted at my local polling station this morning. No dogs unfortunately. I was the only one there. Turn out at local elections is shocking. Got 3 votes so opted all for Lib Dem. Mainly due to them being the only ones objecting to a development opposite and Potholes on my road but also to stick two fingers up to the Conservatives, Rishi and local party.

This afternoon Lib Dem canvasser knocked on my door to ask me had I voted yet and told him I had and voted all 3 Lib Dem. He was chuffed to bits.

Tories just shoved a leaflet through my door. Just tore it up.

 

[ncurd]

I've seen one canvasser afre days ago for the Greens whom I told already votes through post. She didn't ask if I voted for them which I had. Our choice was 2 Greens or 2 Tories, Greens are way down my progressive party list but them the breaks.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I went labour for all three just because it feels like they'll be the closest to outing the current lot/they've actually been canvassing (there were two lib Dems on there too but that was the first I'd heard of them) - fully expect the incumbent Tories to retain though

There's been a massive amount of new builds being put up around here so hopefully that changes the demographics and we can finally shift Fabricant next GE

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Cancel culture is simply choosing not to give someone your custom or support and generally promoting others do likewise, usually because of a disagreement with an individual or company's views or policies. It is not force as it is simply withholding your own business and positive association. This is supposed to be the absolute cornerstone of free market capitalism, the ability to refuse to do business.

As soon as you start using the government or some organisation for force this, it stops being cancel culture.

I think cancel culture is beyond this. Isn't it more like mass shaming with the aim of ostracism?

My decision whether to do business with an organisation is personal choice and absolutely a cornerstone of capitalism. But that's not how I view people taking actions as a result of peer pressure that can sometimes be driven by misconceptions or even malice.