A Political Thread pt. 2

[Ragey Erasmus]

I don't have a problem with ID needed for voting as long as that ID is easily available and free. As soon as you make people pay for it or put up barriers to getting it, it should not be a requirement to vote.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I don't have a problem with ID needed for voting as long as that ID is easily available and free. As soon as you make people pay for it, it should not be a requirement to vote.

I mean, sure in some philosophical level or in some ideal scenario I wouldn't have a problem with it but like with anything you have to question the motives behind any policy. Why do you think this has been brought in and are you ok with that?

People are saying you don't need ID for postal voting but this misses the point. Is this going to put people off voting or is it going to attract more people to vote who wouldn't usually?

I'd also add that the Tories know very well the demographic of people that tend to use postal voting and they don't have to worry about them too much. As I say it's motivation, we know for certain that voter fraud is of no concern and is not a problem so why is this being brought in? In a time where we're seeing the right to strike curtailed and a million other things the last thing we need is more friction in our already broken voting system.

 

[Which Tyler]

I don't have a problem with ID needed for voting as long as that ID is easily available and free. As soon as you make people pay for it or put up barriers to getting it, it should not be a requirement to vote.

Not just free and easily available - but free and automatically available.
As soon as there's... any work involved whatsoever, then it's a barrier.

If you have a national ID card that everyone has to have, then requiring it for voting is fine (well, not 100% fine, but... fine enough)
If you don't, then it's not fine.

As for the purposes of this legislation, it couldn't be more obvious than this:
Old person's rail card - acceptable ID
Young person's rail card - unacceptable, try again

 

[ncurd]

As for the purposes of this legislation, it couldn't be more obvious than this:
Old person's rail card - acceptable ID
Young person's rail card - unacceptable, try again

To be clear I disagree with voter ID entirely and their reasons are abundantly clear for anyone who knows the issues.

However the reason for this is because there are diffrent requirements to get the two types of rail card. The older person's is actually a stronger for of it.

But as you've been saying this thread mandatory, automatic and free.

 

[Which Tyler]

However the reason for this is because there are different requirements to get the two types of rail card. The older person's is actually a stronger for of it.

Fair enough - I didn't know that.
Seems like there's an easy fix there if they wanted to show that it's not deliberate suppression of the youth vote...

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I mean, I'd guess that young people have photo ID in higher percentages than older people (how else are you going to buy alcohol etc), but happy to be wrong on that if someone has figs?

Edit: "Younger people were more likely than the general population to hold a form of photo ID. Ninety-nine per cent of those aged 18-29 held a form of photo ID, slightly higher than either those aged 30-69 (98%) or 70+ (98%)."

Interesting tangential question - compulsory voting, yes or no?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I mean, sure in some philosophical level or in some ideal scenario I wouldn't have a problem with it but like with anything you have to question the motives behind any policy. Why do you think this has been brought in and are you ok with that?

People are saying you don't need ID for postal voting but this misses the point. Is this going to put people off voting or is it going to attract more people to vote who wouldn't usually?

I'd also add that the Tories know very well the demographic of people that tend to use postal voting and they don't have to worry about them too much. As I say it's motivation, we know for certain that voter fraud is of no concern and is not a problem so why is this being brought in? In a time where we're seeing the right to strike curtailed and a million other things the last thing we need is more friction in our already broken voting system.

Oh yeah fraud is not a concern and any attempts to use fraud as a justification are just lies. There are other motives, that much is clear. The Republicans in the USA are doing the same but worse, using non-existent fraud as justification to bring in draconian laws and limit access to voting.

I mean, I'd guess that young people have photo ID in higher percentages than older people (how else are you going to buy alcohol etc), but happy to be wrong on that if someone has figs?

Edit: "Younger people were more likely than the general population to hold a form of photo ID. Ninety-nine per cent of those aged 18-29 held a form of photo ID, slightly higher than either those aged 30-69 (98%) or 70+ (98%)."

Interesting tangential question - compulsory voting, yes or no?

No to compulsory voting. Voting is a right, not a requirement. I would maybe accept compulsory voting if "none of the above" was on the ballot. I know you can technically spoil your ballot but that can only be implied to mean opposing all the candidates. A none of the above is explicit. Either way though, I don't agree with the idea of the government compelling the whole population to do something that should just be a right or face punishment. It just sets a bad precedent IMO. You accept forcing them to vote, what else might you decide the people must be forced to do?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

There's also that there is a large demographic of the population who are not tech savvy and don't own or want to/interested in owning a smart phone to put this digital id on. Like my 70 something mum.

 

[Which Tyler]

Oh goodie - another vote of no confidence is on the horizon.
What's the record for most PMs without a GE? This lot must have smashed it!


Can we have a vote of no confidence in... the people who keep voting for these clowns?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Oh goodie - another vote of no confidence is on the horizon.
What's the record for most PMs without a GE? This lot must have smashed it!


Can we have a vote of no confidence in... the people who keep voting for these clowns?

Tories rebelling against deals made by Tories which were themselves a changed version of a different deal made by Tories... Can these morons just split into 2 parties and be done with it? Tory voters as well seem to have split personalities, which seem to constantly disagree with each other. Over and over they show themselves to be unfit to govern.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Shamima Begum bid to regain UK citizenship rejected

The 23-year-old loses her appeal on national security grounds and means she cannot return to the UK.

www.bbc.co.uk

I am conflicted by this one: on the one hand I agree she was trafficked as a child and shouldn't have her British citizenship revoked but on the other hand, after reading what she did and what she is like, not really that sorry that she has been denied a return.

She returns then much taxpayers funds to keep tabs on her for the rest of her life. No doubt new identity etc. and these so called de-radicalisation programs don't work or aren't reliable as we saw with the London Bridge attack.

 

[ncurd]

Also in regards to photo ID its not age discriminator its a welfare discriminator. The two most common types of photo ID are Drivers Licenses and Passports, unless you have a reason to obtain either of these if you live in poverty you won't have them. Which demographic is more likely to vote for left leaning parties?

On compulsory voting I'm for it, with caveat of none of the above and abstention. I think you should log between someone who doesn't vote for whatever reason from their own view of lack of knowledge and someone who thinks all the candidates are fuckers.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Ukraine war: Why so many Russians turn a blind eye to the conflict

Most prefer to let the Kremlin get on with its war, but ignoring it means making moral compromises.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Reiser99]

Eat turnips during vegetable shortage, suggests Therese Coffey

Cabinet minister says consumers should "cherish" home-grown produce as shops limit sales of some items.

www.bbc.co.uk

Therese Coffey being Therese Coffey. I wonder if she's buying more turnips as are other Tory MPs... I doubt it.

 

[Becca]

Eat turnips during vegetable shortage, suggests Therese Coffey

Cabinet minister says consumers should "cherish" home-grown produce as shops limit sales of some items.

www.bbc.co.uk

Therese Coffey being Therese Coffey. I wonder if she's buying more turnips as are other Tory MPs... I doubt it.

We can't grow enough produce to feed ourselves because they're building houses and roads everywhere !

 

[Reiser99]

We can't grow enough produce to feed ourselves because they're building houses and roads everywhere !

I'm just waiting for rationing and people being told to dig allotments in their gardens. Won't even need to buy turnips then.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Eat turnips during vegetable shortage, suggests Therese Coffey

Cabinet minister says consumers should "cherish" home-grown produce as shops limit sales of some items.

www.bbc.co.uk

Therese Coffey being Therese Coffey. I wonder if she's buying more turnips as are other Tory MPs... I doubt it.

Only a matter of time before loads of Baldrick references come up "I've got a cunning plan to ease vegetable shortages."

 

[ncurd]

 

[ncurd]

Its maddening looking at this conversation on twitter its like to some people Forbes didn't say and then stood by the fact she said she would voted against equal marriage. Only the bit where she said she wouldn't regress those right now they are in place.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I was speaking to a gay SNP member yesterday. They are an atheist so aren't shocked by this, just disappointed. In fairness to the old religions they don't hide their creed. You can see what they don't tolerate printed in black and white. They should ask Forbes if she believes gays go to hell and if they deserve eternal damnation and suffering because of their sexuality. We know her true answer to that one - 'gods will be done'.

A number of extremely senior SNP bods who are devout Christians with a more modern interpretation of the faith became surprisingly animated in distancing themselves from Forbes and underlining the importance of tolerance. Presumably out of concerns old testament attitudes do to the reputation of Christianity up here. I've never seen Swinney get so animated about anything, ever. He is Mr Comatose.

Criticism of Kate Forbes not about faith, John Swinney says

Scotland's deputy first minister says he profoundly disagrees with Kate Forbes despite also having deep religious faith.

www.bbc.co.uk

The other appalling SNP candidate Regan is turning out to essentially be a fifth columnist for Alex Salmond. Today she announced that the SNP government shouldn't really be involved in campaigning for independence and that should be handed to people outside government (like Salmond perchance?). That side are just going to use the trans issue over and over as their policy priority as grounds to try and wrestle back control of the party. A promise to let Westminter veto the legislation if Regan is elected. I can't imagine it has much chance as an argument up here, as the SNP membership are not old fashioned or right wing enough to prioritise that. But its informative that you dont have to be right wing to poop on trans people for political gain (but it helps!). I think I may dislike Salmond more for beating the anti-trans drum to try and get himself on the telly than I do because he is an unfaithful sleazebag (albeit not to a criminally proven extent).

It is bad news for the SNP that no fourth candidate joined after seeing Forbes explode. If Yousaf has a bad campaign or a skeleton comes out of his closet they could be in a world of pain. Having said that, the two best current political leaders up here are arguably the two co-leaders of the Greens. The Lib Dem and Tory guys are so, so poor. Its depressing the calibre of individuals choosing politics as a career (across the spectrum). I doubt any of them could land a punch in opposition unless the SNP pick a zoomer.