A great big Munster thread

[monkeypigeon]

My sentiments exactly.

One year it said on some other report. He's been a grand squad player this year.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

One year it said on some other report. He's been a grand squad player this year.

Suppose one year would be fine.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I don't get the Horan hate. He was never a great player and his skills are clearly diminishing but who is he holding back at Munster? Unless there's a better option as second choice loosehead prop, Horan deserves to keep his contract. He's a very useful player to have in the Pro 12.

I'd be more concerned as to how Billy Holland has a new two year deal. He's well behind O'Connell, O'Callaghan and Ryan. Even if O'Driscoll is retiring, Holland is at best fourth choice and not as good a long term prospect as Foley or Nagle. I've nothing against Holland and think he's a very solid squad player but think the money could have been better spent elsewhere. Cutting him from the squad could go a long way towards paying for a new backs coach for example.

 

[Peat]

Similarly - Niall Ronan signing back up? With O'Donnell and a new openside coming in? Doesn't David Wallace have another year left and all?

 

[psychic duck]

Former All Black great Tana Umaga on Munster shortlist

MUNSTER are believed to be conducting a second round of interviews for the role of head coach that Tony McGahan will vacate at the end of the season.

Reports suggest they have narrowed it to three candidates: forwards coach Anthony Foley, Canterbury's coach Rod Penney and former All Black captain Tana Umaga.

A Munster spokesperson confirmed the process was on going and denied a story in the Evening Echo that Foley had been given the job. Former Irish international number eight Foley remains favourite for the position and if he is given the role, Umaga would be a better fit on a coaching ticket than Penney as the latter is also a forwards coach.

Umaga had a brief flirtation with coaching in Toulon (2008) but his most recent experience is at a more modest level with Counties Manakau in the Second Division. There is no questioning his ability as a player but in convincing others about his coaching pedigree he'll have to be pretty persuasive at interview.

The province could opt for a Penney/Umaga axis but that seems unlikely.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0414/1224314731669.html

thoughts?​

 

[Feicarsinn]

I read an interesting article about the Munster job a few weeks ago. Essentially, the jist of it was that it's a bit of a poisoned chalice because Axel is the man in waiting and his shadow will be hanging over the new coach regardless of who it is.

None of those selections would fill me with confidence truth be told. Umaga has never really impressed me as a coach, Foley needs to move away from Munster for a while and learn the trade in my opinion and I know nothing about Penney. Then again, I knew bugger all about Joe Schmidt, so go figure.

On another issue, does anyone else think that Munster are crying out for a top quality import at number 8. I was thinking about this after the Ulster game and what came to mind is that Ulster manage to bring in overseas experience to help their younger players in pretty much every line on the field. Terblanche in the backs, Pienaar in the halfbacks, Wannenberg in the back row and so on. Munster have some great back row prospects in Butler, O'Mahony and O'Donnell but I wonder if James Coughlan is really the man to bring the best out of them because, as we know, having a great player beside you will make you a better player. This isn't a slight against Coughlan by any means, he's done a job for Munster over the last few seasons that not many people (myself included) thought he could, but I think their young lads could learn a lot more were they to find themselves an international back row they could work with.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I can't see any reason why Tana Umaga would be given the Munster job. Toulon had to call Saint Andre in to babysit him and he's hardly impressing in 2nd tier rugby in New Zealand. The knock against Anthony Foley is that he's too inexperienced- Umaga has even less experience. Of the three coaches on the shortlist, Rod Penney has the best CV.

In terms of where Munster need to recruit, a number 8 would be a position that needs strengthening. While James Coughlan is a good Pro 12 player, he's little more than a solid player at Heineken Cup level and will never be an international. He turns 32 next season so isn't one for the future either. Maybe they should do what everyone else is doing and rape a Welsh region of a good player. Toby Faletau would look good in a Munster shirt. That said, Munster have already reached their NIQ/NIE limit for next season with Doug Howlett, Casey Laulala, Wian Du Preez and BJ Botha signed up.

They also need a backup tighthead, a top centre and (shock horror!) a flyhalf to get back to their position at the top of European club rugby in my opinion.

 

[Feicarsinn]

I thought Howlett was going to be on the coaching panel next season?

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Perhaps he is but he signed a contract extension as a player for next season. It seems a sentimental rather than a sensible choice in my opinion. Howlett is still a quality player but with the progression of Simon Zebo (even though the ex All Black is still a classier player), was it wise to throw money at Howlett or would it have been better spent on another position?

 

[Feicarsinn]

Perhaps he is but he signed a contract extension as a player for next season. It seems a sentimental rather than a sensible choice in my opinion. Howlett is still a quality player but with the progression of Simon Zebo (even though the ex All Black is still a classier player), was it wise to throw money at Howlett or would it have been better spent on another position?

Yeah, it's a silly move. With Earls, Jones and Zebo you have a Heineken Cup quality back three. Murphy and Hurley are probably good enough to provide back up. However all they have in the back row is a bunch of kids, a journeyman in Coughlan, Denis Leamy and David Wallace, who's likely to retire at the end of the season.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Did you read what Ronan O'Gara had to say about Munster's present backrow?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rug...-ability-to-return-as-euro-force-3078905.html

If you look at the back-row of Quinlan, Wallace, Foley, Jim Williams, that calibre probably isn't there at the minute, to be honest about it.

While there's a lot of truth in his statement, it's hardly a vote of confidence in those around him. It was pointed out aptly on another forum that O'Gara is quick to diagnose problems in others but hasn't exactly applied those same standards to himself. During the 6 Nations for example, he was telling all who'd listen that he's Ireland's best flyhalf. While confidence is necessary in a flyhalf, perhaps O'Gara needs a reality check. The Ronan O'Gara of 2012 isn't as good as the Ronan O'Gara of 2006-2008. He's now a game manager (a good one it must be said) who's incapable of breaking, tackling and bringing those outside him into play. When you pick O'Gara, you need a babysitter at 12 to tacklet for him. Lifiemi Mafi and next season James Downey aren't the creative forces Munster need but they're the big bruisers O'Gara needs so that his limitations aren't exposed.

 

[big ginger 8]

In fairness he does have a good pass but I get what your saying.

 

[munstermuffin]

Did you read what Ronan O'Gara had to say about Munster's present backrow?



While there's a lot of truth in his statement, it's hardly a vote of confidence in those around him. It was pointed out aptly on another forum that O'Gara is quick to diagnose problems in others but hasn't exactly applied those same standards to himself. During the 6 Nations for example, he was telling all who'd listen that he's Ireland's best flyhalf. While confidence is necessary in a flyhalf, perhaps O'Gara needs a reality check. The Ronan O'Gara of 2012 isn't as good as the Ronan O'Gara of 2006-2008. He's now a game manager (a good one it must be said) who's incapable of breaking, tackling and bringing those outside him into play. When you pick O'Gara, you need a babysitter at 12 to tacklet for him. Lifiemi Mafi and next season James Downey aren't the creative forces Munster need but they're the big bruisers O'Gara needs so that his limitations aren't exposed.

Snoop he had a point but as you say he has to look long and hard at himself. Too much time spent this week talking in media etc. Our backrow have alot of young guys learning their trade compared with Quinlan, Williams etc who were all really at a higher level for ROG's time. And probably more tougher as they came through AIL as opposed to academy.
But again he needs to cut the lip, as I possibly think he a bit effected by all talk down in Cork and Limerick (based on last Sunday) being fans want money thrown at Madigan in a gamble to get him down. And as you say confidence is key and I think ROG is now feeling the heat of realising he's moving with time and is trying bit too hard to stay in media spotlight.

 

[Gavin]

Throwing a lot of money to get Madigan would make complete sense for Munster and Ireland. With Sexton the first choice No.10 at Leinster, Madigan won't get as much game time as he could if he joined Munster and ROG was placed on the bench to act in the same way as he does for Ireland. Two young, top quality No.10's would be playing constantly for their clubs and it would make the battle for the Ireland 10 jersey a lot better. In saying that Leinster would be affected, especially during the International window, with Sexton away and Madigan elsewhere.

 

[big ginger 8]

Madigan at Munster wouldn't work completely different gameplan and different players. I also think his skillset would suffer as Schmidt is one of the best coaches for the basics and Munster don't have an attack coach. It would be like Sexton with Ireland.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

In fairness he does have a good pass but I get what your saying.

He does have a good pass but he flings them out from 10 metres behind the gain line and since he can't break, defenders just drift onto the outside backs.

If Munster fans want Madigan, they should be careful what they wish for. He's the polar opposite of O'Gara. Everything O'Gara excels at, Madigan needs to work on but Madigan's stengths are in areas where O'Gara is woefully inadequate. Maybe Madigan working with O'Gara for a year would benefit the younger player. Against that, we said the exact same thing 12 months ago about Ian Keatley. Keatley is no better off from his move to Munster than he would be had he stayed at Connacht (in much the same way that Jamie Hagan probably regrets moving back to Leinster).

 

[munstermuffin]

Throwing a lot of money to get Madigan would make complete sense for Munster and Ireland. With Sexton the first choice No.10 at Leinster, Madigan won't get as much game time as he could if he joined Munster and ROG was placed on the bench to act in the same way as he does for Ireland. Two young, top quality No.10's would be playing constantly for their clubs and it would make the battle for the Ireland 10 jersey a lot better. In saying that Leinster would be affected, especially during the International window, with Sexton away and Madigan elsewhere.

Well few issues there,
1) Snoop might know better but Madigan has couple of seasons left on his Leinster contract (not 100% sure)
2) Madigan is excelling in Schmidts gameplan and I'd ask can we play that way and would we suit Madigan and vice versa.
3) Have heard Madigan is as cocky and arrogant as ROG and if so I'm sure he'd fancy his chances at possibly pushing Sexton out (or possibly to 12)

Regardless, Madigan may benefit from fact Schmidt seems to get all these guys plenty of gametime to excel and may rotate Madigan in HEC games and big ML games from next season to aid his development and well it strange for Leinster who produced so much crap in 10 shirt for a spell to now really be producing plenty in that position.

 

[munstermuffin]

He does have a good pass but he flings them out from 10 metres behind the gain line and since he can't break, defenders just drift onto the outside backs.

If Munster fans want Madigan, they should be careful what they wish for. He's the polar opposite of O'Gara. Everything O'Gara excels at, Madigan needs to work on but Madigan's stengths are in areas where O'Gara is woefully inadequate. Maybe Madigan working with O'Gara for a year would benefit the younger player. Against that, we said the exact same thing 12 months ago about Ian Keatley. Keatley is no better off from his move to Munster than he would be had he stayed at Connacht (in much the same way that Jamie Hagan probably regrets moving back to Leinster).

Can agree with that Snoop and well if the 2 lads and Carr stayed at Connacht for extra season they would've got plenty of experience in Heineken Cup and more big games

 

[Feicarsinn]

If Madigan were to go anywhere in Ireland he should go to Ulster. He just wouldn't suit Munster, no disrespect to either party.

Rog's comment further underline what a massive twat he is. There were two young lads playing in the backrow the other day. They do not need one of the supposed leaders in the Munster team picking on them in their first season in the team. Quite the opposite really. He should get a bit of cop on and keep his gob shut, especially considering he was muck against Ulster.

It's a shame that Keatley has been such a disappointment this season, because I think Rog's attitude is doing Munster no favours at the moment.

 

[munstermuffin]

Great win and well we a work in progress. But Snoop ROG's problem is Axel has backed youth and if it is himself and Umaga put in next season they will have steel to drop anyone including ROG and he doesn't like that.
Keatley may improve but I think he really needs to step up in same fashion as Madigan and well put scenario where he's good enough for big games.
Just on tonight too POM man of match and super display