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A great big Munster thread

Clearly everyone's in agreement. Should we worried about the amount of players in the 'past it' categories that could be considered for the Ireland WC squad?

I'm not worried about backrow prospects but we could do with an experienced and not ancient player coming in to get if a bit of punch while O'Mahony, O'Donnell and Butler learn the trade, at least one and maybe 2 need to be starting the majority of matches next year.

Nagle and Dave O'Callaghen need to be starting next to POC.

The worries remain in the Front Row and centre and possibly at outhalf. Evey week I hear about these guys playing in the AIL who should have a professional career, someone needs to grow the balls to say, we've made poor decisions about who we put in acadamies and the like and seemingly only picking people from the 'big schools oligopoly' (chalk it down, I'm coining that) and get in these guys who have the qualities needed. Or else Conor O'Shea is gonna click it first and bring them over to England.
 
JJ Hanrahan is also coming along and he'll be playing for Ireland. It might be a year too early for him but he was MOTM (imo) against England in the U20's when Ireland were struggling to get any ball.
The bolded bit is something I disagree with. His age isn't a barrier or at least it shouldn't be. At the same age as Hanrahan will be next season, Leinster were picking Cian Healy, Rhys Ruddock, Luke Fitzgerald, Andrew Conway, Ian McKinley and Brendan Macken. Ulster were picking Craig Gilroy, Paddy Jackson and Luke Marshall.

I think Munster and Connacht are innately conservative in their selection. Taking Connacht for example, Tiernan O'Halloran and Eoin Griffin should have played far more rugby for the province by now but are being held behind average players like Brian Tuohy and Troy Nathan. Hanrahan is very talented, has only Sam Tuitupou and an out of position Paul Warwick blocking his path yet he doesn't come close to Munster squads. Hanrahan should play at least 10 games for Munster next season.
 
Jackson's only 6 or so months older than Hanrahan. They'll probably form the U20 10-12 axis next year. So no excuse age wise for Hanrahan next year really.

edit: And by Trinity Captain, we meant Da La Valla? He's a beast. If he wasn't US capped I feel fairly sure Ulster would have signed him as a project.
 
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Jackson's only 6 or so months older than Hanrahan. They'll probably form the U20 10-12 axis next year. So no excuse age wise for Hanrahan next year really.
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Precisely, if this was Australia they'd both have 65 caps and people would being saying their over the hill. What position do Munster need - centres. What position has had no younguns besides the players average Dineen and Gleason - Centre.
 
We do have centers just been unlucky.
Barry Murphy could've been international class if fi consistently.
JJ can be a superb 12.
There is some nice players in AIL at Munster clubs it's just getting the opportunity for them.
 
We do have centers just been unlucky.
Barry Murphy could've been international class if fi consistently.
JJ can be a superb 12.
There is some nice players in AIL at Munster clubs it's just getting the opportunity for them.

Are they looking at any players in the AIL?
 
That is our problem. At top table it seems they only interested in you if you from Cork or maybe Garryowen/Shannon. Rest of AIL guys are been overlooked and there is players there that could have potential to play at this level
 
Munster vs Connacht today was an ok performance. Looking forward to Keatley next year, and I hope O'Gara teaches him a thing or two about match control.

Sherry looked quality at hooker. Seeing Barnes today at 12 makes me wonder why he wasn't given more chances during the year. Zebo good on the wing again today....what else....

Donnocha Ryan really rising to the challange set by McLoughlin.

Leinster are getting some good players in Carr, Cronin and Hagan next year.


Munster Rugby Awards tonight too.

Player of the year: James Coughlan.
Young Player of the year: Ian Nagle
Academy Player of the Year: Conor Murray

Right results all around in my opinion.
 
Munster vs Connacht today was an ok performance. Looking forward to Keatley next year, and I hope O'Gara teaches him a thing or two about match control.

Sherry looked quality at hooker. Seeing Barnes today at 12 makes me wonder why he wasn't given more chances during the year. Zebo good on the wing again today....what else....

Donnocha Ryan really rising to the challange set by McLoughlin.

Leinster are getting some good players in Carr, Cronin and Hagan next year.


Munster Rugby Awards tonight too.

Player of the year: James Coughlan.
Young Player of the year: Ian Nagle
Academy Player of the Year: Conor Murray

Right results all around in my opinion.
Just in from a good evening in Thomond and nice award cermony wrapped up by a lovely speech by Quinny.

On the match, given the circumstances of past week and way team was named we were never going to be amazing but well what did we learn. ALOT.
- Sherry really is an option at 2 in big games and well having seen him progress throughout the season I think he can be a starter next season. Was MOTM.
- Donnacha Ryan really nailed down a marker and is finding form, was very good in open, performed excellently in the lineout even stealling a few and well I think he may have nailed a trip to New Zealand. Donnacha O'Callaghan is up against it now.
- Niall Ronan is at his max in ML level and well I think it showed slightly tonight again.
- Paulie looked very good with nice rampaging runs
- Tommy O'Donnell and Nagle got gametime and will be big part of Munster next season.
- Tomas returned and did ok but will be interesting who looses out next Saturday.
- Simon Zebo is turning in to a little gem. Has a bit of twisted knee but was very good tonight and took his try well.
- Doug Howlett. What can I say only he is an ultimate pro and well probably the best import we have ever had. That is a major compliment considering some of others we've had.
- Felix Jones was part of Irish squad this week for briefing on World Cup. If he keeps up his current form and stays fit it will be a major boost and could be a bolter for NZ.
- Danny Barnes, Got a chance in centre and well took it was running lines well, hitting tackles and just been lively, I had my doubts and well still think he is a 13 but well he probably has been best option at 12 we've played this year.
- Lastly Quinny, Thanks for the years of service and blood and sweat you've given Munster a true legend and was delighted to see him sign off with a try.

But well after last week there was a lot of us watching on and wondering what was the problem and how could it be fixed? How could Munster go from being an extremely effective defensive pattern to nearly consistently missing first up tackles, Making continuous errors and just lacking alot of performances.
Well tonight some of that was answered because some of the young lads showed partly what answer is, Watching the lads training during the week players like Jones, Zebo, O'Donnell and Nagle etc were really fighting for their big chance etc. And tonight players like Barnes and Sherry showed what is lacking. Heart, Desire and that bit of steel and resposibility to take the charge. Tonight first up tackles were alot better and Barnes led by example in that. He ran lines and was always looking for best option and could easily have been MOTM. Sherry likewise when chips were down didn't stand back and want to pass 'can, to someone else he took ball on and made yards. Maybe answer is we need to take a gamble and really just look for guys who have the heart and balls and go back to playing basics instead of being over expansive.

The future is not as bad as we fear. A Munster team under 30: For future
1. D. Hurley 2. M. Sherry 3. S. Archer
4. D. Ryan 5. I Nagle
6. P. O'Mahony 7. T. O'Donnell
8. P. Butler
9. C. Murray 10. I. Keatley
12. D. Hurley/ J.J. Hanrahan 13. D. Barnes
11. K. Earls 15. F. Jones 14. S. Zebo

Denis Hurley needs a go at 12 I thing and well if we could use NIQ spots smartly we could have a quick transition and obviously some lads like Leamy who on border of 30 would be added but still Munster just need perfect coaching ticket and bit of co-ordination between all parties and we can be up challenging again.
 
The future is not as bad as we fear. A Munster team under 30: For future
1. D. Hurley 2. M. Sherry 3. S. Archer
4. D. Ryan 5. I Nagle
6. P. O'Mahony 7. T. O'Donnell
8. P. Butler
9. C. Murray 10. I. Keatley
12. D. Hurley/ J.J. Hanrahan 13. D. Barnes
11. K. Earls 15. F. Jones 14. S. Zebo
There's talent in that line up but if Munster put that team on the field tomorrow against an Ulster or Leinster u30 selection, things would get ugly. I've often stated that Tony McGahan is doing a decent job with Munster but I'm disappointed it took him until February/March before he started giving youth a proper chance. While it's clear to see that Zebo, Jones, Murray, Sherry and Nagle have a future, we're none the wiser as to whether Archer, O'Mahony, Butler, O'Donnell, Hanrahan or Barnes will ever be Magners League level, let alone Heineken Cup or international standard.

Munster finished 13 points clear at the top of the table. I feel with better squad management, Munster could have still finished top but found out more about up and coming players too. Take Leinster and Ulster as an example. Both finished in the top 3 in the table and made the last 8 of the Heineken Cup. While doing so we found out that Fergus McFadden, Dave Kearney, Eoin O'Malley, Rhys Ruddock, Dominic Ryan, Richardt Strauss, Ian McKinley, Craig Gilroy, Conor Gaston, Luke Marshall, Paddy Jackson, Nevin Spence and Paddy McAllister all have big futures in the game. I think those provinces will push far clear of Munster next season.
 
Agreed Snoop but from in trainings it easy to identify easily areas players need to improve. Archer isn't a great lifter etc but I agree that we never kicked on from beating Aus by giving these guys more time. And while we probably wouldn't beat a Leinster or Ulster U.30 team tomorrow my point is there is a very decent base to start with and well with 3/4 excellent NIQ players there is a future there.

In fairness JJ hasnt been around squad enough and I agree with decision to hold him back until next season. Paddy Butler is a good 8 but Coughlan really was in fine form and wasn't with international team so it was alternated between him and Leamy. I disagree about Tommy as I think he has shown alot of promise and is a ML 7 at very least.
BARNES AND O'Mahony had injury hit seasons and that played a part too in them having limited time.

But regarding comments about Leinster U.30 players mentioned. Ruddock, Ryan and O'Malley I can agree with but Dave Kearney I don't think has convinced anyone yet, McKinley has showed promise but I wouldn't say he is a proven ML talent yet and Strauss is an import so Leinster can't really say much but when you compare players learnt about there.

We have 5 progressed this year (according to names you mentioned)
Leinster (7 including Strauss)
Ulster (6 players)
So I disagree both Ulster and Leinster will pull away and think that is a wrong way when you consider we actually do have further talent too such as Dave O'Callaghan, Dave Foley, Liam Og Murphy, JJ Hanrahan, Gareth O'Suillibhean, Keatley (who showed last night he could be very good here) and few others so I disagree. I think we are starting to produce some talent and while not all will be H'Cup level I'm confident in saying at least 50% will be European Standard and able to challenge for H'Cup in 3/4 years if not sooner.
 
Whenever they've played the young players this season they gave the team a lift and never let the side down. I can't understand why they're not played more often. Ronan over TOD last night? Whats all that about.

The average age of the squad will be greatly reduced in the next year or two. Some of those coming through will be future internationals. No doubt about that. They just need to be brought through quicker. No point holding them back if they're as good as the older players. I'd like to see more of Barnes, Sherry, Zebo, Nagle, Butler, POM, TOD, Murray, Hanrahan etc next season. There'll be a bit of a clearout of players which will be good.

There was a piece in yesterdays examiner about Dave O'Callaghan and Cathal Sheridan. DaveOC looked a very good player last year for the Irish U20's. He'll be introduced in the next season or two.

Donnacha Ryan is the player I've had many arguments over. People say hes no good but he is a class player who never got a proper opportunity. He started against London Irish, the lineout went bad and he was the one who got dropped.

Whats the story with Corey Hircock MM. Do you think he'll make the Munster team? Will they be signing many players up into the academy?
 
Two good posts above.

My take on it is that with the World Cup next season, player development will be accelerated by all the Irish provinces. Ulster and Leinster are ahead of Munster in that regard and will be better prepared. As a result, Munster may take a step backwards next season but will benefit in 2012/13 and challenge for trophies from that season on. Next season will be about rebuilding more so than this season was.

I agree that Munster aren't as badly off as some claim. They've a magnificent stadium, huge support base and massive sponsorship deals in place. In Felix Jones, Keith Earls, Simon Zebo, Ian Keatley, Conor Murray, Mike Sherry, Ian Nagle, Donnacha Ryan, Peter O'Mahoney and Paddy Butler they have a nucleus of high quality players to build their next team around. Add a few high quality NIQs (of the standard Ulster have recruited) and Munster can manage the transition from the John Hayes, Alan Quinlan, David Wallace, Peter Stringer, Ronan O'Gara and Doug Howlett lead team pretty smoothly but there will be some short term pain next year.
 
The problem with Munster is that they seem hell bent on keeping their youngsters down. You look at the amount of game time the likes of Bulter, Nagle and Zebo have getting in comparison to their Ulster and Leinster counterparts and it's pretty abysmal. Paddy McAllistar, Rhys Ruddock, Nevin Spence, Eoin O'Malley and Dominic Ryan have all played roughly 20 games this season. There are no young players in Munster who are receiving that amount of senior experience. Instead they seem to opt for plodders like O'Driscoll, Ronan and Coughlan or guys who are clearly over the hill like Leamy, Donncha, Quinlan and Hayes. Things must change big time next season.
 
Feic if we are honest Hayes and Quinlan haven't got much game time this season.
Snoop I understand what you are saying and well agree next season is more rebuilding but don't think we will be out of depht challenging. People don't realize in ML we won 19/22 games this season with alot of these youngsters playing their part. Lost in Aviva to Leinster, A freak loss in Italy too but some young guys have been fast tracked (Jones Murray etc) and I'd expect even more next season even more to be stepping up. Regards academy 2 players I know have been offered spots are Liam Og Murphy and Gareth O Suilleabhean. Feic you say players like Ronan and Coughlan are waste but Niall Ronan hasn't had as much an input in close season so don't know why you'd mention him and Coughlan got player of the year last night and is deserving of his spot.
I agree we aren't up there yet with Leinster and Ulster but these things go in cycles and there will be a time where we will have alot of talent coming through and others won't but it about getting best out of what we have and I think we are in a better place than alot of people think and a big part of getting there is trusting younger guys in big games.
Example. O'Leary started last night and I can confirm that was IRFU call as he is just back from injury. Fair enough. But next week I'd want Murray in at 9 because he had his chance and done nothing wrong so let's trust him. Another is Donnacha Ryan. People say he is best at 4 and had superb game last night so again reward him. Zebo (if fit) deserves bench spot and Sherry deserves start at 2 as he is form hooker in past 6 weeks and played Cronin off park last night.
If we loose next week or in Final should we get there fans will call for McGahans head but my views are we ran away with league. We won't loose out on major money if we missed final and sponsorships etc will cover that but let's test these guys and we will be much better stronger and more prepared in future
 
Oh yeah Profitius Corey isn't up to ML level at moment and well he hasn't a great attitude so he is at a crossroads and may be better off returning to UK chancing his arm
 
Cheers. Looking forward to the weekends match against the O's. It looks like it could be close.
 
Agreed it'll be alot closer than people expect. A see here there is big concentration on scrum here this week and feeling is we owe them one.
 
Agreed it'll be alot closer than people expect. A see here there is big concentration on scrum here this week and feeling is we owe them one.

Munster: F Jones; D Howlett, D Barnes, L Mafi, K Earls; R O'Gara, C Murray; M Horan, D Varley, J Hayes; D O'Callaghan, P O'Connell capt; D Ryan, D Wallace, J Coughlan. Replacements: M Sherry, W du Preez, S Archer, D Leamy, N Ronan, P Stringer, P Warwick, S Zebo

Happy enough with the team. Nice to see Barnes get a big match!

However. Two questions. Niall Ronan...when are they going to just drop him?

And Secondly. MM says they've been concentrating on the scrum. WTF is with Horan and Hayes starting so?
 
Gah so many people not a fan or Niall Ronan? I think he is a decent player , maybe not the biggest backrow around but from what I recall seeing of him he gets around the park and works very hard.
 

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