41 player all black squad

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Yeah there's no racism, that's an absurd claim to make.

 

[mania]

im not really sure why jordie is in the team. i see him as a long term project but he isnt ready now for test rugby

 

[Kiwiwomble]

this will probably come out as really arrogant...do the AB's need projects?...generally we seem to be able to field guys that can step up...projects just strike me as breaking up other who just need a few games back too back (Naholo for example)

 

[mania]

o the AB's need projects?...

Not in a wc year

 

[Umaga's Witness]

except that waisake was replaced with another fijian?

Touché

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Racism is a big call.... one guy not getting as many chances as another is not a solid basis for that, some would say sbw has had more chances than others, I remember nonu getting loads of chances when he was doing very little in super rugby, both guys seem to step up in the black jersey I'll admit

Definitely favouritism! But I thinks it is person specific

I like this post. I hoped people might provide me some cause to veer toward the not racism stance. I was only speculating on unconscious racism too, I want to make that clear, because to me unconscious bias doesn't reflect on the judger as a person, though there are things that can be done to help minimise such bias and doing such would reflect positively on the person.

Although I like your points I think the Nonu case is a bit different, as he always played really well for the all blacks. Jordie hasn't yet. But the sbw analogy is more apt, and Isaiah Toeava perhaps

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Yeah there's no racism, that's an absurd claim to make.

It's not absurd, unconscious bias is affecting more judgments than is conscious consideration. That's just how human brains work. But yes I am coming around to the stance there was no unconscious racism here.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

this will probably come out as really arrogant...do the AB's need projects?...generally we seem to be able to field guys that can step up...projects just strike me as breaking up other who just need a few games back too back (Naholo for example)

its always an interesting one, because sometimes the all blacks coaches can really improve players, other times not so much. Sometimes the super rugby coaches are better placed to improve a player. Just look at the old highlanders coaches success in developing players in recent years. But Wayne Smith always helped players. Other point being a really 'talented' player is not necessarily going to be a great player, and a lot of what makes a great player can't be coached

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Have we had any ABs that were labeled as projects that have come good? Off the top of my head all the greats have done their development in super rugby

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Have we had any ABs that were labeled as projects that have come good? Off the top of my head all the greats have done their development in super rugby

Julian savea and Sam cane, both picked before their prime and developed quite quickly. Heck Sam cane was approached when still in school.

 

[Larksea]

Ardie Savea as well, didn't Ardie go on a tour as a non playing development player?
Sam Cane was a pet project of Ian Foster

 

[mania]

toeava was the project player that never really hit a peak. had a ll the skills speed and strength, but just never seemed to know how to inject himself into the game.

aumua is another project player, but im happy for him to be in the wc squad. only because the world doesnt know what he can do. he still has the running game he displayed when initially making the ABs; he's just gotta find his mojo

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I see a project as someone picked and then doesnt shine quickly enough but still gets several opportunities

I dont remember sam cane struggling too much though, picking young doesn't mean hes a project player to me, he got his shot always seem comfortable

Julian burned hot for a few seasons but never became the true AB's great he could have been, fell out of form and went overseas and Ardie has been in an out, still has a chance to really take that 7 jersey as his own but id say there are as many doubters as believers

 

[Larksea]

toeava was the project player that never really hit a peak. had a ll the skills speed and strength, but just never seemed to know how to inject himself into the game.

aumua is another project player, but im happy for him to be in the wc squad. only because the world doesnt know what he can do. he still has the running game he displayed when initially making the ABs; he's just gotta find his mojo

good point, I think Toeava may well be the first ever "development" player. And I think it was justified he showed some amazing potential and there were periods were he absolutely ripped.

I wouldn't see him as a failure. IT did come to light that he had a serious problem with his hip and often played through agony levels of pain for much of his career in NZ and that more than anything else held him up. I think he did eventually go through some pretty major surgery to get it fixed but that was nearer the end of his career in NZ.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...MUfeplarYUnudSBmZ3hrK0laLvTzkymNyQOIJvhOhlMI4

SBW injured again....surely that has to be his last chance before the WC

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I see a project as someone picked and then doesnt shine quickly enough but still gets several opportunities

I dont remember sam cane struggling too much though, picking young doesn't mean hes a project player to me, he got his shot always seem comfortable

Julian burned hot for a few seasons but never became the true AB's great he could have been, fell out of form and went overseas and Ardie has been in an out, still has a chance to really take that 7 jersey as his own but id say there are as many doubters as believers

As I understand, cane did get a lot of advice and coaching plus mentorship from McCaw before he was an all black on merit. But he was never out of place ,you're right. And Yeah he probably would have made it on his own.

As for toeava I actually felt sorry for the guy I reckon he would have been a better player if left to his own devices. To me he suffered a lot of performance anxiety which probably wasn't helped by the high levels of expectation he felt and being thrown in while out of his depth. Just my perception, could have been wrong.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Don't get me wrong, I'd say every new cap gets advice and support, a project is something different

 

[Umaga's Witness]

What kind of teams might we pick for the first two games?

An idea below, listed as starting team then ending team

Game 1

Moli. tuungafasi
Coles. Coltman
Taavao. Laulala
Retallick. Tuipolotu
Hemopo
Frizell. Papalii
Cane
Savea
Smith. Weber
Barrett. J Ione
Ione.
Laumape. Alb
Alb. J Barrett
b smith. Bridge
J Barrett. B Barrett

Game 2

Moody. Karl
Coles. Taylor
Franks. Tuungafasi
Retallick. Fifita
Whitelock
Jacobson
Cane. Todd
Read
Smith. Tj
Mounga. B Barrett
Ione. Ennor
Sbw
Goodhue
Reece
Smith

It gives a look at the diversity of players who are contenders for those utility positions in the World Cup squad. And everyone gets a run except aumua

 

[Derpus]

Wild that Akira doesn't make it with Frizell on the bench. Massively overrated player.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Frizzel overated? Going to have to disagree with you there, was the highlander leading try scorer at times!