[2025 Six Nations] England vs Scotland - 22/02/25

[BPM]

We'll see. Barring injury, I'd expect the starting locks to play the full 80.

Firstly you are assuming Hill isn't 'anywhere near as powerful as Itoje at locking activities'. You don't know that for a fact. Even if Hill does come on, the weight differential later in the game will probably be made up by having CCS at 6.

I assume Coles isn't fit. With him, Martin, Isiekwe and Clark all out, we're scraping the barrel. The next options would have been the locks in the A squad - none of who really look like test players in waiting - or Ewels … usually we don't have to call up a 7th choice lock to the bench.

Who would you have preferred? A slight gamble on Hill, a recall for Ewels or an unwarranted call-up for Tizard, Lockett or Capstick (who isn't even a lock anyway)?

Also worth noting Scotland are struggling a bit at lock ATM too.

 

[Geordie]

We'll see. Barring injury, I'd expect the starting locks to play the full 80.

Firstly you are assuming Hill isn't 'anywhere near as powerful as Itoje at locking activities'. You don't know that for a fact. Even if Hill does come on, the weight differential later in the game will probably be made up by having CCS at 6.

I assume Coles isn't fit. With him, Martin, Isiekwe and Clark all out, we're scraping the barrel. The next options would have been the locks in the A squad - none of who really look like test players in waiting - or Ewels … usually we don't have to call up a 7th choice lock to the bench.

Who would you have preferred? A slight gamble on Hill, a recall for Ewels or an unwarranted call-up for Tizard, Lockett or Capstick (who isn't even a lock anyway)?

Also worth noting Scotland are struggling a bit at lock ATM too.

Yeah its just been reported that whilst hes back fit and training, he isnt fit enough to have made this game.

 

[General Melchett]

Also worth noting Scotland are struggling a bit at lock ATM too.

A bit is an understatement. We're really missing Cummings and I think Williamson would also have been starting had he not been injured.

I don't think you have much to worry about with Gray and Gilchrist who looked pretty poor against Italy and Ireland.

 

[BPM]

Yeah it's just been reported that whilst hes back fit and training, he isnt fit enough to have made this game.

My slight frustration is that we obviously knew Martin was struggling as he was already listed as 'rehabbing'. Given Coles was always a doubt too, it would have made sense to call up another lock.

OTOH, that probably would have meant Ewels or Johnny Hill, neither of whom are likely to have a future with England.

I would have seen the argument for picking one of them for this game only but on balance I'm OK with Ted getting a shot to show his worth.

As usual Borthwick can't win … if he'd called up Ewels, people would have complained, if he'd promoted Tizard, people would have said 'he's uncapped, that's a risk'. As it is, he chose a viable option who is already in the squad and had presumably been training at lock.

 

[Geordie]

My slight frustration is that we obviously knew Martin was struggling as he was already listed as 'rehabbing'. Given Coles was always a doubt too, it would have made sense to call up another lock.

OTOH, that probably would have meant Ewels or Johnny Hill, neither of whom are likely to have a future with England.

I would have seen the argument for picking one of them for this game only but on balance I'm OK with Ted getting a shot to show his worth.

As usual Borthwick can't win … if he'd called up Ewels, people would have complained, if he'd promoted Tizard, people would have said 'he's uncapped, that's a risk'. As it is, he chose a viable option who is already in the squad and had presumably been training at lock.

Yeah you've pretty much listed my thoughts on this whole thing.

Tizard isnt even worthy of a spot at the moment and Ewels gets slated every time hes selected. Clark is injured and Coles is not fit. SB decides to go with HIll who is 6'5 and a very powerful guy and apparently we're going to lose.

They will have been practicing this for two weeks whilst they knew Martin was a doubt, and if England are worried about giving away actual stones, then CCS will also come off the bench who is 19+ stones.

 

[Jakedood]

I wonder if this game is going to feature a lot of set structures. England have a lot of lineout threats both in their start XV and on the bench now that they may be trying to avoid any long kicks to Scotland and instead keep them away from open field running. Arguably that's where DvDM, Jones and Kinghorn are at their best while Finn and Kinghorn have bit boots and will look to pin England back with a long kicking strategy at times.
I think how England look to counter that will have a massive impact on the outcome.
I don't know who's going to come out on top, it's a bit of a 50/50 but I think whoever does win will probably run away with it comfortably to a 8+ point lead

 

[spartan32]

I can't remember, is there another actual lock in the wider squad?
I mean, I'm delighted that he's going to get a chance, and hopefully it'll be at BSF rather than lock, but... I'd rather have an actual lock on the bench

Its a bit concerning that there is no specialist replacement lock option. Itoje will regularly do 80 mins but Chessum is just back from injury so its a big ask. Hill is a good lad, but if he is expected to step into 2nd row at international level its a bit of a leap. Fingers crossed Itoje and Chessum dont get injured, or worse, both!!

 

[Wasps92]

Sick of hearing about VDM. England have made him look way better than he actually is in recent years.

Never mind the fact that he's about Scottish as I am.

 

[spartan32]

I wonder if this game is going to feature a lot of set structures. England have a lot of lineout threats both in their start XV and on the bench now that they may be trying to avoid any long kicks to Scotland and instead keep them away from open field running. Arguably that's where DvDM, Jones and Kinghorn are at their best while Finn and Kinghorn have bit boots and will look to pin England back with a long kicking strategy at times.
I think how England look to counter that will have a massive impact on the outcome.
I don't know who's going to come out on top, it's a bit of a 50/50 but I think whoever does win will probably run away with it comfortably to a 8+ point lead

I really hope that we dont kick long to the Scots and leave them with loads of open space to run into. That would be playing directly into their hands. Russell thrives in chaos and is constantly alive to options. We need to be super disciplined, keep things tight, and force them to play our game.

 

[spartan32]

Sick of hearing about VDM. England have made him look way better than he actually is in recent years.

Never mind the fact that he's about Scottish as I am.

Not sure the foreign player thing is much of an issue. Gibson-Park, Bundi Aki, Manu, Billy V etc etc. Plenty of modern teams have converts. I agree that he gets a lot of chat, but considering how may tries he's scored against us in this tournament you can see why. He sort of talismanic for Scotland in the CC. What England need to do is contain him, smash him in the tackle, and kill off any hoodoo he may hold.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Gibson-Park, Bundi Aki, Manu, Billy V

Moving as a pro player (/"A" level international) is very different to moving as a child

But realistically at this point who cares - World Rugby killed the international game when they allowed players to switch nations

It's a clownshow, might as well just try and enjoy it for the circus it is

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Yeah leats not compare apples to oranges
Manu and Billy moved to England at like 13-15

England rightly got **** for Botha, Barrett and Hape era.

 

[Saintjay]

Not sure the foreign player thing is much of an issue. Gibson-Park, Bundi Aki, Manu, Billy V etc etc. Plenty of modern teams have converts. I agree that he gets a lot of chat, but considering how may tries he's scored against us in this tournament you can see why. He sort of talismanic for Scotland in the CC. What England need to do is contain him, smash him in the tackle, and kill off any hoodoo he may hold.

Not convinced Sleightholme and Marcus Smith are going to be smashing DVM. More of a case of hang on till numbers arrive.

I'd say its probably rare DVM get's smashed in the tackle by anyone.

 

[General Melchett]

Not convinced Sleightholme and Marcus Smith are going to be smashing DVM. More of a case of hang on till numbers arrive.

I'd say its probably rare DVM get's smashed in the tackle by anyone.

Yeah stopping Duhan is easier said than done if Russell gets enough ball. He generally ploughs through any back lacking in kg's and even fended off Dombrandt with his index finger before dotting down two years ago. He also picks his moments to drift infield and so isn't always easy to track.

His try scoring run against England will end at some point and it may well be tomorrow if England can nullify Russell and cut off his supply.

 

[LIONSxv]

England will kick to touch and challenge Scots ball.even if Scots retain ball Eng will want to make it scrappy ball.

Scots on the other hand will use a combination of long kicks and ball in hand. They will definitely not be kicking to touch very often.

Whoever wins this tactical battle will win the game imo

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

OTOH, that probably would have meant Ewels or Johnny Hill, neither of whom are likely to have a future with England.

True. But occasionally you have to look in the here and now and winning this one game is incredibly important to us. Win and is likely 4/5 and a launching pad to better things. Lose and it's probably another 3/5 mid table with Fra (which for all the drama was a lucky win) looking like an Ire 24 style aberration.

Borthwick's taking a big risk here, especially asking Chessum to go 80 when he's barely got any rugby in his legs. It may be a non issue, but if it does become a problem then he looks incredibly silly.

And not even Ewels could rack up a hattrick of reds. Could he?

Also on Hill, although he's shown decent club form, for whatever reason he's never really had a sniff in his preferred position so it's a massive ask for him to be covering another. Read into stats whatever you want but a while back there were some posted on here where he looked awful in comparison to other Eng contenders.

Similar risk comments can be said for M Smith at 15. I don't think it's the right thing, but I applaud SB for having the courage to stick to his guns. But if it doesn't go well he's opened himself up to a huge amount of flak.

 

[spartan32]

Not convinced Sleightholme and Marcus Smith are going to be smashing DVM. More of a case of hang on till numbers arrive.

I'd say its probably rare DVM get's smashed in the tackle by anyone.

Just pop Earl or Curry on his wing for a couple of plays, maybe with Lawrence. Then Fin can put some lovely weighted kicks his way and let the lads do the rest. A couple of goes at that treatment and he may not be running at his best

 

[spartan32]

I' really struggling to call a score for this game, but England are to be in with a chance of winning the tournament then we need to win with a BP. I know there is often the "one game at a time" logic, but I personally feel that England need to set themselves a higher standard then that. If France can do us a favour and beat the Irish (which is entirely possible), this is all going to come down to points difference and bonus points, so just getting the win here is unlikely to cut it. We need to be really positive with our game and play like a team that would deserve to lift the trophy.

Score Line: Scotland 18 - 31 England. Maybe another lovely finishing effort from Daly to bring the bonus point home at the last.

 

[Which Tyler]

Oh gods
In other news Anthony Watson has added a bit of critical insight on the Youngs podcast ahead of the Scotland game - "I think if you could choose, you'd rather go in to a game with more confidence rather than less" which I think is a really good point. We armchair fans often miss the finer details that the pros can spot.

 

[Geordie]

I' really struggling to call a score for this game, but England are to be in with a chance of winning the tournament then we need to win with a BP. I know there is often the "one game at a time" logic, but I personally feel that England need to set themselves a higher standard then that. If France can do us a favour and beat the Irish (which is entirely possible), this is all going to come down to points difference and bonus points, so just getting the win here is unlikely to cut it. We need to be really positive with our game and play like a team that would deserve to lift the trophy.

Score Line: Scotland 18 - 31 England. Maybe another lovely finishing effort from Daly to bring the bonus point home at the last.

France were sloppy against us, they might be a bit more efficient and strict for the rest of the tournament, which will be a challenge for Ireland. Will be some game.