[2025 Six Nations] England vs Scotland - 22/02/25

[BPM]

True. But occasionally you have to look in the here and now and winning this one game is incredibly important to us. Win and is likely 4/5 and a launching pad to better things. Lose and it's probably another 3/5 mid table with Fra (which for all the drama was a lucky win) looking like an Ire 24 style aberration.

Borthwick's taking a big risk here, especially asking Chessum to go 80 when he's barely got any rugby in his legs. It may be a non issue, but if it does become a problem then he looks incredibly silly.

And not even Ewels could rack up a hattrick of reds. Could he?

Also on Hill, although he's shown decent club form, for whatever reason he's never really had a sniff in his preferred position so it's a massive ask for him to be covering another. Read into stats whatever you want but a while back there were some posted on here where he looked awful in comparison to other Eng contenders.

Similar risk comments can be said for M Smith at 15. I don't think it's the right thing, but I applaud SB for having the courage to stick to his guns. But if it doesn't go well he's opened himself up to a huge amount of flak.

So you're saying you would have called up Ewels?

I think injuries have dealt Borthwick a poor hand here but I very much doubt who is covering lock from the bench will be the deciding factor.

 

[Duct Tape]

Watched the game v France last night again on replay.

Lineout was a mess. Until Chessum came on. Hence perhaps his start tomorrow.

France wingers (and DuPont) catch the ball and it's down by 20+ in the first half. England were very lucky.

After all the hype for F Smith, he seemed hesitant early, steady later, with two good kicks. A couple of very good delayed passes to open space. No open field runs a la M Smith but I guess that's his game. Looking forward to Saturday for round 2.

Marcus handled his duties at FB well, but was not tested on many high balls. DVM licking his chops.

What is with Marcus' "stutter steps", for lack of different words (not sure what you'd cell it) when he is running with the ball?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

So you're saying you would have called up Ewels?

 

[Geordie]

Watched the game v France last night again on replay.

Lineout was a mess. Until Chessum came on. Hence perhaps his start tomorrow.

France wingers (and DuPont) catch the ball and it's down by 20+ in the first half. England were very lucky.

After all the hype for F Smith, he seemed hesitant early, steady later, with two good kicks. A couple of very good delayed passes to open space. No open field runs a la M Smith but I guess that's his game. Looking forward to Saturday for round 2.

Marcus handled his duties at FB well, but was not tested on many high balls. DVM licking his chops.

What is with Marcus' "stutter steps", for lack of different words (not sure what you'd cell it) when he is running with the ball?

I think they'll have a plan for Freeman to cover some of the high balls. Freeman v DVM is going to be a nice little sideline battle.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So you're saying you would have called up Ewels?

I think injuries have dealt Borthwick a poor hand here but I very much doubt who is covering lock from the bench will be the deciding factor.

Not necessarily, but would definitely have had a lock in the training squad to give the choice.

But at the end of the day Ewels has got 30+ caps and an entire career at lock. Hill's probably got about 30 minutes over his entire career (facetious, but point made).

Hill's likely to be on in the last 20 and odds are that the game is likely to still be up for grabs. If he struggles in the scrum (and even the donkeys in the row have a technique to master…) that could lead to pens or cards at a crucial time. If he's on earlier I'll be worried.

Hopefully a total non-issue, but you've also got to accept that it's a risk and one that didn't have to be run.

We'll only find out tomorrow.

 

[Reiser99]

And not even Ewels could rack up a hattrick of reds. Could he?

 

[Geordie]

Not necessarily, but would definitely have had a lock in the training squad to give the choice.

But at the end of the day Ewels has got 30+ caps and an entire career at lock. Hill's probably got about 30 minutes over his entire career (facetious, but point made).

Hill's likely to be on in the last 20 and odds are that the game is likely to still be up for grabs. If he struggles in the scrum (and even the donkeys in the row have a technique to master…) that could lead to pens or cards at a crucial time. If he's on earlier I'll be worried.

Hopefully a total non-issue, but you've also got to accept that it's a risk and one that didn't have to be run.

We'll only find out tomorrow.

Well on the positive, if he fails in the scrum at least if the game opens up and you've got Ted, CCS and Earl rampaging about it should be fun

 

[BPM]

Not necessarily, but would definitely have had a lock in the training squad to give the choice.

But at the end of the day Ewels has got 30+ caps and an entire career at lock. Hill's probably got about 30 minutes over his entire career (facetious, but point made).

Hill's likely to be on in the last 20 and odds are that the game is likely to still be up for grabs. If he struggles in the scrum (and even the donkeys in the row have a technique to master…) that could lead to pens or cards at a crucial time. If he's on earlier I'll be worried.

Hopefully a total non-issue, but you've also got to accept that it's a risk and one that didn't have to be run.

We'll only find out tomorrow.

Didn't I already say that it would have made more sense to have a lock in the training squad with Martin and Coles doubtful?

Clearly, I do accept it's a risk, but that also brings potential upsides and I find it irksome that this board constantly lurches towards the worst case scenario.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

BTW. Is Martin's injury history, particularly knee related starting to be a concern?

 

[spartan32]

Watched the game v France last night again on replay.

Lineout was a mess. Until Chessum came on. Hence perhaps his start tomorrow.

France wingers (and DuPont) catch the ball and it's down by 20+ in the first half. England were very lucky.

After all the hype for F Smith, he seemed hesitant early, steady later, with two good kicks. A couple of very good delayed passes to open space. No open field runs a la M Smith but I guess that's his game. Looking forward to Saturday for round 2.

Marcus handled his duties at FB well, but was not tested on many high balls. DVM licking his chops.

What is with Marcus' "stutter steps", for lack of different words (not sure what you'd cell it) when he is running with the ball?

"hitch kick" is the term you're looking for I think.

As for the assessment, I think its fair to say there was some luck for England in the first half, but you could also say there was some luck for Ireland in the England game with the bounce of the ball on a few occasions. Luck us just part the game. I think the point that should not be overlooked is how England finished. Down on the scoreboard and needing a converted try to win with just 5 mins on the clock. They then worked in a controlled fashion, first winning back the ball at the KO, putting on steady pressure, and then won the penalty that got us in the corner, which set up the lovely set piece leading to the try. All was executed really well which is not only a testament to the teams fitness, but also their mental strength, and was an improvement on the Ireland game. All this is very encouraging, and I would humbly suggest that, based on form, England are arguably the favourites for this game. Of course, France were the favourites for their game, and look how that ended!!

 

[Reiser99]

For me it'll depend on if England can stop Scotland getting quick ball and if we've tightened up our defence out wide. While England played a lot better against France overall, the reality is that if they had taken most of their chances then we'd probably have lost by about 20 points, possibly more with the way momentum works.

 

[spartan32]

Obviously lots of chat about Russell, but just looking at the stats from the Prem for the three 10s on the field tomorrow it paints an interesting picture.

Tackles Made: Russell: 64, Fin 89, Marcus 34, but both Marcus and Fin having a higher completion rate than Russell.
Defenders Beaten: Russell: 14, Fin 10, Marcus 25
Meters Made: Russell: 210, Fin 156, Marcus 368

In short its looking like a defensive 10 for England v Attacking 10 for Scotland.

Personally I feel like Marcus is getting a bit hard done by at the moment. Fin is getting lauded a lot, but I would rather have a dynamic attacking 10 that poses threats across the board. Feels a little like we are drifting back into the Farrell days of a pass, kick, smash 10.

Anyway, looking at Russell's stats theres certainly merit in throwing Lawrence, Earl and the like down his channel as he aint a great tackler.

 

[BPM]

For me it'll depend on if England can stop Scotland getting quick ball and if we've tightened up our defence out wide. While England played a lot better against France overall, the reality is that if they had taken most of their chances then we'd probably have lost by about 20 points, possibly more with the way momentum works.

Poor use of the word 'reality' when you're talking about 'ifs and buts'. The reality is what actually happened … in other words, we won and France didn't take some of those chances through a mixture of their errors and good defensive pressure.

I think it's fair to say Scotland haven't been brilliant so far, but that can go either way. They're as likely to improve as they are to continue their average form.

I do find it a bit bizarre that we've apparently become favourites for this game after one win. Scotland have consistently had our number recently, so they should be favourites IMO.

A good win would change things considerably though.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Obviously lots of chat about Russell, but just looking at the stats from the Prem for the three 10s on the field tomorrow it paints an interesting picture.

Tackles Made: Russell: 64, Fin 89, Marcus 34, but both Marcus and Fin having a higher completion rate than Russell.
Defenders Beaten: Russell: 14, Fin 10, Marcus 25
Meters Made: Russell: 210, Fin 156, Marcus 368

In short its looking like a defensive 10 for England v Attacking 10 for Scotland.

Personally I feel like Marcus is getting a bit hard done by at the moment. Fin is getting lauded a lot, but I would rather have a dynamic attacking 10 that poses threats across the board. Feels a little like we are drifting back into the Farrell days of a pass, kick, smash 10.

Anyway, looking at Russell's stats theres certainly merit in throwing Lawrence, Earl and the like down his channel as he aint a great tackler.

I mean isn't that standard practice on all 10's not built like a Pollard? Scotland already know teams will try target him and tend to hide like we do with Smith

 

[spartan32]

I mean isn't that standard practice on all 10's not built like a Pollard? Scotland already know teams will try target him and tend to hide like we do with Smith

I suppose, but Scotland will get a lot less change from Fin. The lad can defo tackle. This then helps the England defensive line because you don't have to worry so much about the 10 channel. This in turn should help with covering out wide and the threats Scotland have out there. i suppose this arguably is why Fin is at 10 tomorrow. Anyway, I' just thinking out loud now. You're point is well made..

 

[spartan32]

Poor use of the word 'reality' when you're talking about 'ifs and buts'. The reality is what actually happened … in other words, we won and France didn't take some of those chances through a mixture of their errors and good defensive pressure.

I think it's fair to say Scotland haven't been brilliant so far, but that can go either way. They're as likely to improve as they are to continue their average form.

I do find it a bit bizarre that we've apparently become favourites for this game after one win. Scotland have consistently had our number recently, so they should be favourites IMO.

A good win would change things considerably though.

Why is it bizarre for England to be favourites for this game? Scotland have not played well in the past two games. They have injuries so some key players and have arguably a much weaker bench. Also the England team they face tomorrow bares very little resemblance to the one they last faced. They are also playing away from home. In contrast England have looked steadily better each game and seem to be coming into their stride. They turned over France who are currently one of the top teams in the word, and weren't far off Ireland. I am not sure anyone is suggesting that England will romp to victory, but I think its fair to say that when all things are considered England are indeed favourites.

Unless you are suggesting that both teams are perfectly match and its a clean 50/50?

 

[Half Pint]

Oh gods
In other news Anthony Watson has added a bit of critical insight on the Youngs podcast ahead of the Scotland game - "I think if you could choose, you'd rather go in to a game with more confidence rather than less" which I think is a really good point. We armchair fans often miss the finer details that the pros can spot.

A second career as a ITV pundit beckons ..

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Why is it bizarre for England to be favourites for this game? Scotland have not played well in the past two games. They have injuries so some key players and have arguably a much weaker bench. Also the England team they face tomorrow bares very little resemblance to the one they last faced. They are also playing away from home. In contrast England have looked steadily better each game and seem to be coming into their stride. They turned over France who are currently one of the top teams in the word, and weren't far off Ireland. I am not sure anyone is suggesting that England will romp to victory, but I think its fair to say that when all things are considered England are indeed favourites.

Unless you are suggesting that both teams are perfectly match and its a clean 50/50?

Let's ask those who really know.

The best odds on Oddschecker are England at 8/25 and Scotland at 10/3.

 

[AlRums]

Oh gods
In other news Anthony Watson has added a bit of critical insight on the Youngs podcast ahead of the Scotland game - "I think if you could choose, you'd rather go in to a game with more confidence rather than less" which I think is a really good point. We armchair fans often miss the finer details that the pros can spot.

It's a comment that comes under the heading of "stating the bleeding obvious"

 

[AlRums]

What is with Marcus' "stutter steps", for lack of different words (not sure what you'd cell it) when he is running with the ball?

It's the same with vdm, they're telegraphing a change in direction or at least indecision