[2024 Six Nations] France vs England - 16/03/24

[Which Tyler]

It's the Lawes thing all over again, but at least we won't have to deal with everyone yelling about moving him to lock this time

Yep, Lawes to 6
Daly to wing (initially)
Curry to 6 (and Curry to 8)
Farrell to 12
Slade to OC (initially, and at Exeter)
Manu to IC
Lawrence to IC, for that matter
Foden to FB
Moody to 7
Corry to lock
Dallaglio to 8
RHill to 6
Why does Jack Rowell insist on having 3 #8s in the backrow
...

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

SB's talking a good game on continuity, but let's see how he (we!) reacts when Furbank spills a couple of high balls.

I suspect Steward will be back involved sooner rather than later. But if not I'd be expecting him to start learning French. Just on basic maths there aren't going to be many central contracts available for those outside the current match day 23 and losing >£20k per game that you're used to is going to sting.

Freddie spills a fair few balls as well but people seem to ignore that. I'd also say that apart from the odd game Furbank is solid under the high ball these days and brings so much more than Freddie.

Hopefully Freddie improves his pace and vision but it won't happen at tigers and let's be honest, he isn't suddenly going become way more agile and powerful. He needs to move to a club with a decent backs coach.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Steward drops the odd couple but he also competes for every ball.


Furbank didn't even try to take any that was compete-able and doesn't really with saints.

Outside one decent finish I don't think he really brought any that extra. Do I think he should be dropped no, but let's not forget the points he also cost us and also the his performance v Scotland wasn't exactly great

Saints fans can convince themselves their backs are world class but how many players did they have away in the RWC? Let's see how their team does in non RWC year. Cause Dingwall was getting the same fan fair and he was nearly as poor as Porter was for England

 

[Crash Hamster]

Steward drops the odd couple but he also competes for every ball.


Furbank didn't even try to take any that was compete-able and doesn't really with saints.

Outside one decent finish I don't think he really brought any that extra. Do I think he should be dropped no, but let's not forget the points he also cost us and also the his performance v Scotland wasn't exactly great

Saints fans can convince themselves their backs are world class but how many players did they have away in the RWC? Let's see how their team does in non RWC year. Cause Dingwall was getting the same fan fair and he was nearly as poor as Porter was for England

England are unbeaten with Dingwall at 12, though...

I think he's probably been very harshly treated; two games, booted out, can't even get the '12 on the bench' slot. It's understandable that well-known 13 Ollie Lawrence has come back into the side from injury, but it does seem dsome palyers are given more leeway than others.

Strange Brainwaves was happy enough to give IFW a starting berth for the first time against an Ireland side who mullered France away, but won't risk giving a debut to Cadan Murley Will Muir in Lyon.

If he's not going to debut players in 'difficult' games, it's going to be a year or two before anyone else gets a first cap. Can't wait to be taking some 40 year olds to the next WC...

 

[Which Tyler]

Strange Brainwaves was happy enough to give IFW a starting berth for the first time against an Ireland side who mullered France away, but won't risk giving a debut to Will Muir in Lyon.

Hardly a like-for-like comparison.
IFW is an obvious talent, and should have a lengthy international career ahead of him. Muir is a perfectly decent winger, and rightly in the conversation around who's England 2nd tier of wingers; but he'll be lucky to pick up a dozen caps overall, whilst if IFW fails to reach 50, something will have gone very wrong.

 

[Crash Hamster]

Hardly a like-for-like comparison.
IFW is an obvious talent, and should have a lengthy international career ahead of him. Muir is a perfectly decent winger, and rightly in the conversation around who's England 2nd tier of wingers; but he'll be lucky to pick up a dozen caps overall, whilst if IFW fails to reach 50, something will have gone very wrong.

No, it's not like for like, though Muir has been good for you this season, has scored some good tries and deserves his elevation to the squad. That isn't the pertinent question, though; it's more sensible to ask "is Muir a better winger than outside centre Elliot Daly?" and to answer "good God, yes."

If you prefer, you could ask "Which player is more of a poor man's IFW?" to which the answer is clearly Cadan Murley Will Muir. England looked so much better with an actual winger on the wing; I cannot believe, good though hugely inexperienced wunderkind IFW undeniably is, that the noticeable improvement in team performance came only from IFW's innate IFWness. Surely, Muir (or indeed Roebuck) must be thought good enough to be able to bring some international-standard wingeriness or they wouldn't be in the squad.

Muir's never going to win a cap if he never gets picked; 12 may be hugely optimistic.

EDIT: inside/outside, all the same to me (and SB)

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

No, it's not like for like, though Muir has been good for you this season, has scored some good tries and deserves his elevation to the squad. That isn't the pertinent question, though; it's more sensible to ask "is Muir a better winger than outside centre Elliot Daly?" and to answer "good God, yes."

If you prefer, you could ask "Which player is more of a poor man's IFW?" to which the answer is clearly Cadan Murley Will Muir. England looked so much better with an actual winger on the wing; I cannot believe, good though hugely inexperienced wunderkind IFW undeniably is, that the noticeable improvement in team performance came only from IFW's innate IFWness. Surely, Muir (or indeed Roebuck) must be thought good enough to be able to bring some international-standard wingeriness or they wouldn't be in the squad.

Muir's never going to win a cap if he never gets picked; 12 may be hugely optimistic.

EDIT: inside/outside, all the same to me (and SB)

Muir is simply competing for the wrong position. Can he play 12?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Muir is simply competing for the wrong position. Can he play 12?

Taller than Earl and Underhill so would be better as a line out oriented back rower.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Taller than Earl and Underhill so would be better as a line out oriented back rower.

He could be a line out oriented 12 like Benhard Janse van Rensburg

 

[ShropshireAllBlack]

No, it's not like for like, though Muir has been good for you this season, has scored some good tries and deserves his elevation to the squad. That isn't the pertinent question, though; it's more sensible to ask "is Muir a better winger than outside centre Elliot Daly?" and to answer "good God, yes."

If you prefer, you could ask "Which player is more of a poor man's IFW?" to which the answer is clearly Cadan Murley Will Muir. England looked so much better with an actual winger on the wing; I cannot believe, good though hugely inexperienced wunderkind IFW undeniably is, that the noticeable improvement in team performance came only from IFW's innate IFWness. Surely, Muir (or indeed Roebuck) must be thought good enough to be able to bring some international-standard wingeriness or they wouldn't be in the squad.

Muir's never going to win a cap if he never gets picked; 12 may be hugely optimistic.

EDIT: inside/outside, all the same to me (and SB)

All backs look the same to a coach that came from the pack?

 

[Crash Hamster]

He could be a line out oriented 12 like Benhard Janse van Rensburg

Eligible next Autumn..?

 

[Crash Hamster]

All backs look the same to a coach that came from the pack?

Small, nippy people with nice hair. Excellent point.

 

[ShropshireAllBlack]

Small, nippy people with nice hair. Excellent point.

Don't forget the clean shirts….

 

[Crash Hamster]

Don't forget the clean shirts….

And big numbers, requiring a forward to remove at least one boot to aid with the counting.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Small, nippy people with nice hair. Excellent point.

Maybe go back 3 posts?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Muir is simply competing for the wrong position. Can he play 12?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Eligible next Autumn..?

Barf

 

[Saintjay]

Steward drops the odd couple but he also competes for every ball.


Furbank didn't even try to take any that was compete-able and doesn't really with saints.

Outside one decent finish I don't think he really brought any that extra. Do I think he should be dropped no, but let's not forget the points he also cost us and also the his performance v Scotland wasn't exactly great

Saints fans can convince themselves their backs are world class but how many players did they have away in the RWC? Let's see how their team does in non RWC year. Cause Dingwall was getting the same fan fair and he was nearly as poor as Porter was for England

How many world class England players went to the world cup? With regards to the backs it could be argued a number of players from various clubs were better than those selected yet didn't go. Even Mitchell was a reserve to begin with.

Borthwick simply picked the best players he thought would suit his game plan at the time as he's doing now.

Furbank wasn't great against Scotland but then again who was.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Furbank wasn't great against Scotland but then again who was.

Italy.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Small, nippy people with nice hair. Excellent point.

any hair