[2024 Six Nations] England vs Wales - 10/02/24

[Welsh Exile]

I'm hoping for some positive news on Rowlands in the next day or 2. I think Gatland has already confirmed North is back so he'll come in for Watkin. Any sane person is starting Ioan Lloyd at 10 so you can be sure Costelow will start if fit. He won't be as crazy as to start Gareth Davies again so Tomos Williams will start I'd imagine.

Other than that I guess we should see Gareth Thomas come in and no one has nailed down the 6 jersey so won't be surprised to see a change there. All in all there could be 4 or 5 changes to the Wales team whereas I don't see the English making too many changes which will probably benefit them but I find this hard to predict as no result would really surprise me, I'll wait as always until team is announced. Hopefully Gatlands announces tomorrow as he is partial to an early announcement.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Rowlands back in camp but is being tipped to be named on the bench (hopefully not)

Botham has been released due to knee injury and Seb Davies has been called up in his place. Leon Brown, unsurprisingly, picked up a knock so we've called up Dillon Lewis which isn't a bad thing as he should've been in the squad anyway.

I think @dirty harry is right and Gatland will do something stupid like start Jenkins at 6.

 

[dullonien]

Leon Brown, unsurprisingly, picked up a knock so we've called up Dillon Lewis which isn't a bad thing as he should've been in the squad anyway.

Poor guy is made of glass!

 

[retired9]

An organised and drilled England should win this however, Wales 2nd half performance has to have given them a real boost of confidence of what they can do when they just play a bit. Barcs and Warbs were keen to point out the space England left out wide Vs Italy, Wales have the skill to capitilise if it's not tidied up sharpish.

 

[Which Tyler]

An organised and drilled England should win this

What I wouldn't give for an organised and drilled England - haven't seen such a beast for a couple of decades now.

 

[Grizwald]

I very much doubt Borthwick will make any unforced changes, Borthwick being Borthwick.

Marler got a lot of praise last weekend for lasting 75 mins but his lack of mobility around the park made him look like a passenger at times IMO. Borthwick doesn't seem to set up to have his props do much carrying so it would make sense to allow for that in the systems, particularly in defence. Chessum shot out of the line to blitz on a couple of occasions on his own without the players immediately around him doing the same so left dog legs. It's hard to know if it was Chessum's fault or the others, but I'd say it's safe to assume Felix Jones is attempting to install a blitz defence that worked so well for the Springboks.

Lots of praise for CCS who had some good moments, he seems really chilled so it may be a seamless transition to International rugby but he's not first choice at his club in any of the backrow positions. Backrow was a bit imbalanced, Underhill is a different animal when he's on his game but hadn't played for a while or had all that much rugby since the WC. He's not really known for his carrying, I always see him as a hard hitter to stop teams getting over the gain line, maybe put Earl at 7 but not convinced by the available options at 8 in the squad.

I'd like to see Freeman possibly move in one position to 13, Slade didn't do anything wrong against Italy and maybe short term could move to 12 and have two wingers with pace, I don't mind Daly but he's lost a yard or two of pace with age to being playing on the wing at this level. It's sods law that Dingwall didn't have a great game, is he a 12? I watched the Munster game and it was Hutchinson at 12 and Dingwall at 13, they're both of similar stature i.e. neither would be classed as 'big'. Most international sides these days to tend to have at least one centre that can bosh it up when required and defend well-it's as much about playing Ford at 10 who doesn't shirk from a tackle but gives up yards.

I think Steward should be used as a special teams player based on the conditions. If it's lashing it down and/or a team will predictably kick a lot he's your man otherwise his lack of pace gets exposed more often than not, Freeman is the form FB in the league and can cover 10 and wing mostly needs to be some competition that isn't the WC experiment of Marcus Smith which you're getting with Furbank as he's actually played in all 3 positions for his club. From memory Wales kicked a lot last year in the 6N and not well and Steward just lapped it up. My fear is Gatland realises this current iteration of Wales can't kick the ball the away and play without the ball like Wales teams of old. If they come out an play heads up rugby England looked very narrow against Italy at times on Saturday.

Having said all that Borthwick won't change anything unless he has to......

 

[IT157]

Read that it took about a dozen games for the Boks to understand and get the blitz right.

So expect a lot more growing pains in the games to come....

 

[Scotty]

Read that it took about a dozen games for the Boks to understand and get the blitz right.

So expect a lot more growing pains in the games to come....

Makes sense, i mean you dont throw out a defensive system because it didnt work for 1 game, Chiefs have done it this season and the scramble defence has been great and when it works its dominant but it does go wrong and when it does you get caught out to easy.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I very much doubt Borthwick will make any unforced changes, Borthwick being Borthwick.

Marler got a lot of praise last weekend for lasting 75 mins but his lack of mobility around the park made him look like a passenger at times IMO. Borthwick doesn't seem to set up to have his props do much carrying so it would make sense to allow for that in the systems, particularly in defence. Chessum shot out of the line to blitz on a couple of occasions on his own without the players immediately around him doing the same so left dog legs. It's hard to know if it was Chessum's fault or the others, but I'd say it's safe to assume Felix Jones is attempting to install a blitz defence that worked so well for the Springboks.

Lots of praise for CCS who had some good moments, he seems really chilled so it may be a seamless transition to International rugby but he's not first choice at his club in any of the backrow positions. Backrow was a bit imbalanced, Underhill is a different animal when he's on his game but hadn't played for a while or had all that much rugby since the WC. He's not really known for his carrying, I always see him as a hard hitter to stop teams getting over the gain line, maybe put Earl at 7 but not convinced by the available options at 8 in the squad.

I'd like to see Freeman possibly move in one position to 13, Slade didn't do anything wrong against Italy and maybe short term could move to 12 and have two wingers with pace, I don't mind Daly but he's lost a yard or two of pace with age to being playing on the wing at this level. It's sods law that Dingwall didn't have a great game, is he a 12? I watched the Munster game and it was Hutchinson at 12 and Dingwall at 13, they're both of similar stature i.e. neither would be classed as 'big'. Most international sides these days to tend to have at least one centre that can bosh it up when required and defend well-it's as much about playing Ford at 10 who doesn't shirk from a tackle but gives up yards.

I think Steward should be used as a special teams player based on the conditions. If it's lashing it down and/or a team will predictably kick a lot he's your man otherwise his lack of pace gets exposed more often than not, Freeman is the form FB in the league and can cover 10 and wing mostly needs to be some competition that isn't the WC experiment of Marcus Smith which you're getting with Furbank as he's actually played in all 3 positions for his club. From memory Wales kicked a lot last year in the 6N and not well and Steward just lapped it up. My fear is Gatland realises this current iteration of Wales can't kick the ball the away and play without the ball like Wales teams of old. If they come out an play heads up rugby England looked very narrow against Italy at times on Saturday.

Having said all that Borthwick won't change anything unless he has to......

Well he's just changed a hell of a lot, much enforced, but change nonetheless. Got to give players (unless clearly placeholding for a superior player to return from injury) / systems a chance.

 

[dirty harry]

Rowlands back in camp but is being tipped to be named on the bench (hopefully not)

Botham has been released due to knee injury and Seb Davies has been called up in his place. Leon Brown, unsurprisingly, picked up a knock so we've called up Dillon Lewis which isn't a bad thing as he should've been in the squad anyway.

I think @dirty harry is right and Gatland will do something stupid like start Jenkins at 6.

I'm telling you it's coming, Rowlands not being in camp ruined the plan, so he went for Botham. Now hes been replaced by Seb Davies, hes not a lock (hes not even a Cardiff player this season to be honest).

Leon Brown does what Leon Brown does...

I think this will be worse for Wales, this England team wont take their foot off the gas, and there wont be a MS crowd to lift them.

Costello and Davies have to lose their spots, that first 40 mins of kicking was embarrassing. A lot of people slating Elias, but I dont think his darts were the problem mostly, lifters were slow to get into position, and Beard looked like he was made of solid steel, his jump was so slow.

I think Gatland will have been happy with that first game, and will make a host of changes for this. I hate that people are saying that Gats kicking game was rubbish first half and when they abandoned it Wales were better. That's not the case, the kick game was just better 2nd half, and Wales kept the foot on when they felt momentum change.

England by 15+

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'm telling you it's coming, Rowlands not being in camp ruined the plan, so he went for Botham. Now hes been replaced by Seb Davies, hes not a lock (hes not even a Cardiff player this season to be honest).

Leon Brown does what Leon Brown does...

I think this will be worse for Wales, this England team wont take their foot off the gas, and there wont be a MS crowd to lift them.

Costello and Davies have to lose their spots, that first 40 mins of kicking was embarrassing. A lot of people slating Elias, but I dont think his darts were the problem mostly, lifters were slow to get into position, and Beard looked like he was made of solid steel, his jump was so slow.

I think Gatland will have been happy with that first game, and will make a host of changes for this. I hate that people are saying that Gats kicking game was rubbish first half and when they abandoned it Wales were better. That's not the case, the kick game was just better 2nd half, and Wales kept the foot on when they felt momentum change.

England by 15+

England won't take their foot off the gas?

Lol

You mean like we did against Italy. You are living in an alternative dimension. The rugby you watch is bit wheat everyone else watches.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Freeman and IFW training in green bibs, all other wingers in yellow bibs

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Freeman and IFW training in green bibs, all other wingers in yellow bibs

You're gonna be really disappointed when it turns out that this means 13. Daly 11. Muir 14. Roebuck

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You're gonna be really disappointed when it turns out that this means 13. Daly 11. Muir 14. Roebuck

Muir and Roebuck are two of my favourite players, I'm not sure even Daly still in the side would be enough to bring me down from that high

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Steward wants Twickers to "erupt" on Saturday. Serve up much more of the dross we've been used to and he may well get his wish…..

England "hopeful" that both Martin and Lawrence will be available for Scotland.

 

[dirty harry]

England won't take their foot off the gas?

Lol

You mean like we did against Italy. You are living in an alternative dimension. The rugby you watch is bit wheat everyone else watches.

The rugby I watch isnt different, I just analyse it different from an eye trained to analyse tactical, technical and contextual performance indicators lol

England didnt take their foot off, they just werent that good, they're bench failed to maintain intensity, but realistically that was a more comfortable win than most give them credit for.

If i remember correctly i gave Italy a small chance of nicking the win, but ultimately though England by 10 sounded about right. That late Ioane try made the scoreline flatter Italy.

Realistically though, Wales are a weaker opponent than Italy were, itll be at Twickenham, and the Welsh resurgence probably wont happen due to a number of factors.

I give Wales less of a chance of beating England this week than I gave Italy of beating them last, and I gave Italy slim chance.

 

[dirty harry]

Dross?
I think I've found the issue and disagreement between myself and England fans on this board...

England are not a world beating team. I believe they have a limited squad, who were in a bad place last year when SB took over, and are performing as expected in relation to what they are capable of.

England fans still seem to have a mindset that England should destroy supposed weaker teams, Italy, Wales, Scotland etc, but as Wales of the last decade, and currently Ireland and France, other teams have been capable of raising their games to levels unmatchable by this England team.

With the greatest of respect, England played about as expected v Italy, a 10 point cushion seemed about right looking at their squads on paper, and I thought they negated the Italian threat ball in hand well mostly. What is concerning is that when Italy did manage a couple of phases, they cut through England with ease.

England arent a real contender for this championship, 3 wins is a success for you this year IMHO, because I would view beating Scotland or France a scalp, but I also suspect both can play too well to beat also.

Similar to when I'm discussing how SB is doing a good job, my opinion is based off reality of this sqauda capabilities, whereas some English fans believe England should compete every year. Its sadly not the case in 2024.

 

[TommiG88]

The rugby I watch isnt different, I just analyse it different from an eye trained to analyse tactical, technical and contextual performance indicators lol

England didnt take their foot off, they just werent that good, they're bench failed to maintain intensity, but realistically that was a more comfortable win than most give them credit for.

If i remember correctly i gave Italy a small chance of nicking the win, but ultimately though England by 10 sounded about right. That late Ioane try made the scoreline flatter Italy.

Realistically though, Wales are a weaker opponent than Italy were, itll be at Twickenham, and the Welsh resurgence probably wont happen due to a number of factors.

I give Wales less of a chance of beating England this week than I gave Italy of beating them last, and I gave Italy slim chance.

oh England certainly didn't take their foot off the gas, but we certainly changed tactics to a more conservative game. It became a game of take the points, pin them back and don't take any risks

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

 

[dirty harry]

Is this official?

7 changes? I expected something similar.

Davies and Costelow dropped fully? Thank God lol

Bit harsh on Domachowski IMO, that was a decent performance under pressure. Elias too, was decent around the park. Cant argue though, Thomas is the better scrummage, and Dees darts worked better.

Mann at 6, Gatland absolutely loves momentum. Mann is smaller, less experienced and and less powered than other options, but the balls on that kid to score from back of the maul, and the confidence he must have got from it. Similar to Lloyd's performance, hell be feeling good.

I hope Gats has something big up his sleeve though, hes going to need it!