[2024 Six Nations] England vs Ireland - 09/03/24

[IT157]

Looks like a team most people were crying out for on here. A notable exception is Ford starting instead of Smith, but with Smith just coming back from an injury, it makes sense him not starting the game.

 

[Wasps92]

Why are some people on Cares case? I think he's always been good for England, and frankly a pretty decent chap. I much happier about him getting to 100 then I was Youngs!

I think he was good for England prior to his exile in 2018. I think he’s been average to very poor since his return in 2022.

 

[Groundhog]

I'm such a Ringrose loyalist, which will surprise no one, so I hate seeing him fit and not starting. The Aki Henshaw duo is tearing up trees and have done no wrong, but for me if you have Ringrose play him. Takes so much pressure off his winger defensively.

 

[IT157]

Ollie Chessum at 6? Surely he lacks the ground speed for that. Sure it gives us some carry threat but I think Cunningham-South is very unlucky not to start there.

Again Itoje looking undroppable despite not having the sort of impact I'd expect from him. (Love him but think he needs taking out of the fire- it never hurt Dallaglio et al from time to time, it was a way to get the best out of them)

?

Itoje has been consistently great this 6 nations.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I've no issue with Care there tbh - he's old but atm the next cab off the rank is Randall and Care is better than him

No-one's mention Dombrandt on the bench?

Honestly I just presumed Roots was on the bench - not sure how I feel about it, his form in the Prem warrants another look, but like someone above said: that balance of having two 8s on the bench (I know CCS also plays 6 but the vast majority of his career is at 8) feels unbalanced
Shame Curry's injured and Pearson's been dropped - Dombrandt a better bench option than Roots though, for me, who is a start-or-not-at-all kind of player

In theory Dombrandt can offer an impact if the game opens up in the second half, but I think Ireland are too relentless for that

 

[Grizwald]

Eh it's OK. I'm not sure about Chessum at 6, I'm not actually sure about him at lock either as he seems to have dropped off a little does he play much at 6 for Leicester?

Looks like it's set for Earl to move to 7 at some point with CCS 6 and Dombrandt to 8 to allow a Quins 8/9/10 axis.

It's nice to see Feyi-Waboso get his shot (although it does grind a little but he's leapfrogged others), but I hope he doesn't get exposed and resigned to the bin.

Given what happened with all the changes and those coming in cold from injury it's probably the safer bet not to throw the baby out with the bath water and put Marcus Smith straight in.

Ireland by a couple of converted tries at least unfortunately.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Chessum and Martin both started their premiership careers at 6 under Borthwick TBF (which was like 2 or so seasons ago)

 

[Jimbo]

obviously a win would be fantastic for England, being realistic, I only half care about the outcome of the game, I like to see the defence improved and some attacking cohesian, if we get that, it’s some level of progress to me.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Smith isn't fully fit tbh and that he's either not coming on, or will only get a couple minutes

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

No-one's mention Dombrandt on the bench?

I've personally given up on him as taking the step up to international level (sadly, along with Slade); but if we're emptying the bench after 60odd minutes and CCS, Care and MSmith are all coming on, then I guess it makes sense.

And he’s played well at club level. There’s some logic but like you, unfortunately, I don’t think he’s quite got what it takes. Or maybe he just needs one moment to trigger him on to greater things. Rather have seen Barbeary though.

The cynics will say we have a 5 at 6, a 6 at 7 and a 7 at 8. I’m not one of those, obviously.

The highlight would be a veteran’s slow motion footrace between Cole and Healy. Presumably Cole would have to be chasing as he doesn’t really do the egg shaped thing.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Shall we play a prediction game of how many touches of the ball Feyi Waboso will get? I say 3 or less

 

[Amiga500]

Eh it's OK. I'm not sure about Chessum at 6, I'm not actually sure about him at lock either as he seems to have dropped off a little does he play much at 6 for Leicester?

Yeah, would question his ability to make the right decision (awareness of who is beside him and adjust accordingly) when further out in open field. He's made some total howlers when 3rd or 4th man out from the ruck over this 6N.

As a lock, prob fair to say he's less likely to find himself further out and having to make these decisions less.

Also probably fair to say he'll not be able to make too many such errors at the weekend without being punished.

 

[Zed]

Shall we play a prediction game of how many touches of the ball Feyi Waboso will get? I say 3 or less

Yeah it's sad England will have a player like him on the wing and he'll only be used for chasing kicks. I think England are stuck between a rock and a hard place. For whatever reason, they don't have the ability to play an expansive game, if they do they'll mistakes and Ireland will win by 40 points. If they play this turgid 10 man kicking game, they would have lost before the game starts, but they'll be able to keep the score down low, lose by 15 points and people will argue that they were only 2 tries off beating one of the top sides in the world. The reality being, that they would have never threatened Ireland and it was simple damage limitation.

Ultimately they need to start play more enterprising rugby, deal with a few big losses and slowly evolve. You're simply not going to win many games box kicking all the time. Playing a kicking game when they have to, but when it's on, the ball goes wide. At the moment, when it's on, England look lost.

 

[Ddanno]

It's all just a bit **** really. Would be great if we were introducing really exciting players with lovely acronym (CCS, IFW) names into a functional team, rather than the "hey, fix this aspect because I can't , or can't be bothered, how dare you suggest I've been over promoted, do you know why I have this lovely weird england hat here's one for you anyway - or **** off into the wilderness forever and maybe play for Italy, Wales or some other **** later because you didn't score a hat trick you silly clown"

Done with Borthwick. The defence is looking promising and that's it, and has nothing to do with him.

 

[Zed]

It's all just a bit **** really. Would be great if we were introducing really exciting players with lovely acronym (CCS, IFW) names into a functional team, rather than the "hey, fix this aspect because I can't , or can't be bothered, how dare you suggest I've been over promoted, do you know why I have this lovely weird england hat here's one for you anyway - or **** off into the wilderness forever and maybe play for Italy, Wales or some other **** later because you didn't score a hat trick you silly clown"

Done with Borthwick. The defence is looking promising and that's it, and has nothing to do with him.

At what point does Borthwick get the boot? They'll probably 2/5 after the 6N, the autumn internationals, they'll be lucky to get 2/4, then the next 6N they'll be looking at 2-3/5 again.

 

[Reiser99]

Yeah it's sad England will have a player like him on the wing and he'll only be used for chasing kicks. I think England are stuck between a rock and a hard place. For whatever reason, they don't have the ability to play an expansive game, if they do they'll mistakes and Ireland will win by 40 points. If they play this turgid 10 man kicking game, they would have lost before the game starts, but they'll be able to keep the score down low, lose by 15 points and people will argue that they were only 2 tries off beating one of the top sides in the world. The reality being, that they would have never threatened Ireland and it was simple damage limitation.

Ultimately they need to start play more enterprising rugby, deal with a few big losses and slowly evolve. You're simply not going to win many games box kicking all the time. Playing a kicking game when they have to, but when it's on, the ball goes wide. At the moment, when it's on, England look lost.

I don't agree that attack is the last part of the game to develop. Jones was completely wrong about that and if Borthwick feels the same then he is wrong. Having said that, you build the attack around good basics and England just don't have that at the moment. If the basics were good, but the attack needed work then it wouldn't be as big an issue. But England have a turgid attack whilst the basics are inconsistent at best.

 

[OwenPB]

?

Itoje has been consistently great this 6 nations.

Agreed, he's litterally the first player I think of with the current squad. He does all the basics extremely well. He's agressive, powerful and fast in defense. IMO he's about England's best and most consistently high performing player right now.

Not sure what to think about tomorrow's game. On one hand, we're Ireland and look streets ahead of everyone else this year. There's a feeling of inevitability.
On the other hand, if ever there was a time for England to pull one over on us, it's at home, total underdogs and stopping Ireland's shot at back-to-back slams. There's a feeling of banana skins.

I'm going for an Ireland win by 5-10pts, coming late, with some difficulty. No BP.

 

[General Melchett]

Would love England to cause an upset here for the sake of the championship but can only see that happening if POM and the rest of the Irish team play in their crocs. Even then it might be a tight one.

 

[TommiG88]

Would love England to cause an upset here for the sake of the championship but can only see that happening if POM and the rest of the Irish team play in their crocs. Even then it might be a tight one.

Is that you Heaslip?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

?

Itoje has been consistently great this 6 nations.

He’s been good, better than he has been, but great’s overstating it. He’s not influencing games as he did when he first came on the scene and he’s not been in MoM discussions.

The interesting point in the Times this morning that he’s not really developed his game over time did chime.