[2022 Six Nations] England vs Ireland (12/03/22)

[Leonormous Boozer]

Go to bed

I'm up and on the way home!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Traitor.

A true Irish fan like me would never support the English

Allez

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

A little disappointed with that. Yeah we won but we can attribute the win to England fatigue as much as anything. When the game was a contest we found it incredibly difficult to wrestle the momentum away or at least stem the tide. Arguably we facilitated England in getting up for the contest. A similar thing happened in Paris and with eyes on a World Cup that won't do. High tempo attacking rugby is great but when the crowd are up and the referee has his focus solely on you, you have to find a better way of managing the game.

I don't think the penny has dropped for a lot of our players. We respond to pressure moments by forcing it more. We have a relatively young side though so hopefully this, Paris and the 3 tests in New Zealand serve a purpose.

We're poor out of Dublin, told have of the posh part of London before the game. But ******* hell we were aggressively **** today, don't know how you don't pick it up against that crowd.

Delighted winning against a genuinely mean crowd (copped needless insults and a third of a pint for not being English) but man we need to wise up and realise how privileged we are to have an intense following in Dublin and this doesn't translate to away and neutral games.

2 years ago I was saying the crowd isn't a factor in why a home game is an advantage, fair to admit I was very wrong.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

View attachment 13611
Smellis

View attachment 13612
No he's CHEATING

Still stank of shite even when on top to be fair.

Rancid smell from your front row.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Still stank of shite even when on top to be fair.

Rancid smell from your front row.

Yeah because Genge pushes not straight but all the Irish front row are pushing straight 100% of the time (when not getting shoved up their arse that is).

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yeah because Genge pushes not straight but all the Irish front row are pushing straight 100% of the time (when not getting shoved up their arse that is).

I was exclusively talking about the putrid smell of BO across London from Smellis and Stinkler. I prefer not to mention scrums unless absolutely necessary.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Don't know how that's adds up?! A little **** peak?

-

Have to watch again but here are my thoughts:

Furlong had a couple conversations with the ref, Genge had him to start and the just drove at a 45°angle and down once he realised he had Raynal.

Doris scored a try, Ringer had the ball slapped our and backwards, crazy knock on call.

We struggled big time without Ryan, Henderson and POM on the same pitch never really worked but they lost to 7 players today.

Henshaw is a better player than Aki when push comes to shove.

Lowe might not be our 11 but not for the reason touted here.

A wins a win is a win and whoever the **** that threw his beer on me at ~70mins, I hope you enjoyed the ~71st minute winner!

Yeah I'll clarify my drunken ramblings.

Ireland are building really well in theory, but the lack of clinical edge in the past couple of games would really worry me - I think they were really quite poor against Italy and were outplayed by a 14 man and generally **** England yesterday. That's the kind of thing that usually precedes a dip in form and, after a great autumn, would worry me massively

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yeah I'll clarify my drunken ramblings.

Ireland are building really well in theory, but the lack of clinical edge in the past couple of games would really worry me - I think they were really quite poor against Italy and were outplayed by a 14 man and generally **** England yesterday. That's the kind of thing that usually precedes a dip in form and, after a great autumn, would worry me massively

Fair, I think our play outside the Aviva is worrying for sure and I'm not making any big claims as to what we'll do at next year's world cup, I don't think anyone is. I think we're on course to be one of the best four teams in the comp, and it wouldn't be the first time we have been but that doesn't equal semi finals obviously.

Could we be in better shape? Of course, but I think people are getting carried away because of one huge game against NZ and a good showing in the first two rounds of the 6n (the fact we lost to France has almost been ignored). This time last year we were borderline tragic so the profession is why we're high on ourselves rn.

I don't think we were outplayed yesterday either, England really maxed out all of their dominant periods and targeted a few weaknesses of ours very well while taking advantage of a rare off day from Furlong. But they never looked like scoring a try while we always did when we managed to be accurate and put pressure on them. It was a weird game of rugby with your red card and our anchor being replaced by the most headless version of Iain Henderson I've ever seen (and he's had some wobblers) but regardless of that I don't think it can be argued that a team that won 4 tries to none were outplayed. The team with 14 did better than they should have been allowed to but that's a different story.

 

[Smurfy]

We certainly have some issues that need addressing but I'd suggest that 4 tries yesterday and 20 tries overall in this 6ns suggest that the putative lack of a clinical edge isn't the main one. In fact I'd say that our clinical edge is currently masking those other issues. A lot of wishful thinking going on with English and Welsh friends.

 

[ncurd]

We certainly have some issues that need addressing but I'd suggest that 4 tries yesterday and 20 tries overall in this 6ns suggest that the putative lack of a clinical edge isn't the main one. In fact I'd say that our clinical edge is currently masking those other issues. A lot of wishful thinking going on with English and Welsh friends.

Don't need wishful thinking your side of the draw is ******.

I think Irelands only question from yesterday is why did take 70mins to benefit from the man advantage.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Looking back at it, I'm surprised the Furlong incident on Slade wasn't even looked at. No malice but carelessness and recklessness are both still valid reasons for player punishment, as shown by Ewels. Slade was definitely whacked hard and it looked like a forearm to the head, that is a straight red. Also, regardless of whether you feel the scrums are being reffed properly, repeated scrum infringements and generally the accumulation of penalties should have led to a yellow at some point.

Ultimately I feel the red was what spurred England on and feel we would have lost anyway with 15 men having played tons of turgid rugby up until then but do find the above 2 issues quite baffling.

Also Jones has just got to ******* go now. England are rudderless and it seems the only times we do anything special is off the back of individual brilliance, not tactical brilliance. Jones' frequent poor selections and refusal to make changes until after things have already gone ***s up is what has led to us suddenly rushing in lots of inexperience to replace failing experienced players. His stubborn, repeatedly selection of a known card and penalty magnet was showed up today. Ewels is like Lavanini without the vicious ******* streak, just the brains of cheese instead giving away tons of penalties. He does the same at Bath.

Ultimately we may struggle with a different coach to Jones but I'm not seeing any signs of progress and if we finish 5th again, he will have yet another "worst ever" record to his name as England coach.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Tbh I'd be very annoyed if I was Irish. That's 2 weeks in a row with a man up where ireland have been a little **** and that's the kind of issue that you start seeing before you end up becoming England.

Feels like a peak too soon yet again to me tbh

Agree with this. I think it's pretty naive or disingenuous to claim to be happy with that from an Irish perspective. Sure a win is a win at Twickenham but there was a lot that was wrong, on the back of some other questionable performances. I don't think you can gloss over the scrum and forward battle either, big areas of strength for Ireland traditionally, and the huge amounts of space the backs had against 14.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I don't know why we're being discredited so badly. We've had two games in recent years where we got early red cards, SA 2016 which we won and Wales last year which we were winning until Sexton got injured and replaced by Billy Burns. A red card isn't a forfeit at this level.

Yesterday was close because of two bad individual performances from Henderson and Furlong, they're hardly weak points in our team and they're not bad players because of one game. It's definitely more disingenuous to paint yesterday as a negative for us than us being happy we got a big away win and over a mental hurdle doing so.

It also isn't as if the red card was only of benefit to us, we lost James Ryan, that's a big deal.

Looking back at it, I'm surprised the Furlong incident on Slade wasn't even looked at.

I think Slade just ran into him? It was easy to see and the crowd reacted to it so I doubt it was missed.

 

[munstermuffin]

We won and it a great builder BUT this is Ireland on time. We hit a decline then coming in to the Summer of 2023. **** the bed for RWC and Post RWC 6Nations and then cycle begins again.

Although just feel Faz and Paulie are 2 heads strong guys to break the norm.
I think the nighly bit is we are hitting great heights with very few top top guys but instead moulding them.in to a top system. Like our back 3 are very average players individually but a top top unit.
Same for JGP at 9. A decent club player when assessing him in a scouting report but in this system he is very good

 

[Aimless ponderings]

Looking back at it, I'm surprised the Furlong incident on Slade wasn't even looked at. No malice but carelessness and recklessness are both still valid reasons for player punishment, as shown by Ewels. Slade was definitely whacked hard and it looked like a forearm to the head, that is a straight red. Also, regardless of whether you feel the scrums are being reffed properly, repeated scrum infringements and generally the accumulation of penalties should have led to a yellow at some point.

Ultimately I feel the red was what spurred England on and feel we would have lost anyway with 15 men having played tons of turgid rugby up until then but do find the above 2 issues quite baffling.

Also Jones has just got to ******* go now. England are rudderless and it seems the only times we do anything special is off the back of individual brilliance, not tactical brilliance. Jones' frequent poor selections and refusal to make changes until after things have already gone ***s up is what has led to us suddenly rushing in lots of inexperience to replace failing experienced players. His stubborn, repeatedly selection of a known card and penalty magnet was showed up today. Ewels is like Lavanini without the vicious ******* streak, just the brains of cheese instead giving away tons of penalties. He does the same at Bath.

Ultimately we may struggle with a different coach to Jones but I'm not seeing any signs of progress and if we finish 5th again, he will have yet another "worst ever" record to his name as England coach.

Totally agree with your comments regarding Jones tenure, England aren't going anywhere under this current coaching team.
The time for change is now.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I don't know why we're being discredited so badly. We've had two games in recent years where we got early red cards, SA 2016 which we won and Wales last year which we were winning until Sexton got injured and replaced by Billy Burns. A red card isn't a forfeit at this level.

Yesterday was close because of two bad individual performances from Henderson and Furlong, they're hardly weak points in our team and they're not bad players because of one game. It's definitely more disingenuous to paint yesterday as a negative for us than us being happy we got a big away win and over a mental hurdle doing so.

It also isn't as if the red card was only of benefit to us, we lost James Ryan, that's a big deal.



I think Slade just ran into him? It was easy to see and the crowd reacted to it so I doubt it was missed.

I hear that. It's not to discredit the win, more in response to some suggestions a bit further above that it's an even rosier scenario than that.

I don't think Slade ft furlong is a thing tbh, looked like Henry running headlong into Furlongs arm, WWE style to me

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think Slade just ran into him? It was easy to see and the crowd reacted to it so I doubt it was missed.

I might try to find clearer footage but it does then become a question of how much responsibility a player had to not have their arm outstretched when they aren't going to catch the ball and at the head height of an oncoming player. Not entirely sure what happened but just surprised there didn't seem to be a TMO review at the same time as they were looking at the knock on, it didn't appear to me to be so clearly ok that it didn't merit it. However IF Furlong stuck his arm out with no realistic chance of catching the ball and instead simply hit Slade's head, I don't really see how that could be mitigation. Having your arms wide like that when making a tackle and causing a knock on is deemed an unnatural position for the arms to be in and is penalised as intentional so it could be argued that Furlong having his arm out like that was not a natural position for it to be in at that point to achieve anything other than simply being in the path on an oncoming player.

 

[BenniMarco]

Jones feels like the Rugby version of Mourinho.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

I might try to find clearer footage but it does then become a question of how much responsibility a player had to not have their arm outstretched when they aren't going to catch the ball and at the head height of an oncoming player. Not entirely sure what happened but just surprised there didn't seem to be a TMO review at the same time as they were looking at the knock on, it didn't appear to me to be so clearly ok that it didn't merit it. However IF Furlong stuck his arm out with no realistic chance of catching the ball and instead simply hit Slade's head, I don't really see how that could be mitigation. Having your arms wide like that when making a tackle and causing a knock on is deemed an unnatural position for the arms to be in and is penalised as intentional so it could be argued that Furlong having his arm out like that was not a natural position for it to be in at that point to achieve anything other than simply being in the path on an oncoming player.

End of the day, no matter the intent, Slade caught a straight arm to the head that definitely wasn't his fault. Slade's not a small lad either, he doesn't get sent flying by that arm unless Furlong chooses to keep it rigid.

I don't personally agree with it being a card, but by the current hyper sensitive rules I'm surprised it wasn't.

 

[BPM]

Particularly when the penalty that led to Ireland getting the territory for Keenan's try came from an incredibly soft 'high tackle' call on Itoje. It was a poor attempt at a tackle but it looked to me like an ineffectual grab at Ringrose shoulder (with minimal contact) and nothing more than that. It couldn't even have been described a seatbelt tackle.