[2022 Six Nations] England vs Ireland (12/03/22)

[Vieux Talonneur]

In the circumstances I'm not surprised we played the way we did. Getting more adventurous against a good team with a man down would have been asking for trouble. The tactics worked until the legs, inevitably, went which was about all we could reasonably ask. Whether we'd have done the same with 15 is a moot point but, for once, whether by accident or design I think we largely played what was in front of us.

Pre match Jones described it as a semi final.
There's no doubt that the team really emptied the tank on Saturday just as they did v NZ in 19. Big question is whether Jones can get them up for a second consecutive full on performance. I doubt we'll beat Fra - I just think they're better than us - but if we're right on it again I'll (grudgingly) take that as some sort of (limited) progress. Turn in a RWC final style no show and all the questions come flooding back.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Commit a red card penalty try offence in the opening minuite?

I think he actually did, as well - card was at 82 seconds but I'm sure the tackle was under 60s in

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

He got 2/10 lol

Presume they liked his rendition of the anthem?

Sky Sports bizarrely gave him a 4!!

Rugbypass gave him n/a but ruck went for it and gave him the deserved 0.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I don't think you can criticise England for the 'negative' kicking tactics when it was working to be honest. Especially since they have struggled to score tries from open play anyways.

 

[ncurd]

I don't think you can criticise England for the 'negative' kicking tactics when it was working to be honest. Especially since they have struggled to score tries from open play anyways.

@TRF_Olyy pointed out during the match but a lot of the kicks were contestable or territory which is far cry from our usually kick it aimlessly tactics.

That said I'd like to see some attempt at attacking intent ball in hand. Smith and Randall are supposedly brilliant but I've seen little to suggest they'll be amazing in the 6 nations.

 

[MikeTheNative]

England have tried with 15 men to attack with the ball in hand so far this 6 nations and haven't produced much outside the Italy game.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

England have always kicked like that against us under Jones, it's worked more often than not. I wouldn't call it negative when it's purpose is attacking.

We leave our back three a bit more exposed than most teams but they're usually able to beat or half beat the first tackle to recover, England timed their chase perfectly and hit hard and legally, impossible to get right every time but you're very good at it

I don't think it's a gameplan that scores many but maybe England go to the corner once or twice in that case get maul over a try or two.

Considering it's been done to death why Ireland shouldn't be happy I think our ability to score tries and not let them up easy is worth a mention. 20 tries for and three against, one being charity work from Tadhg Beirne. That's the sort of rugby that allows teams to win amdnwin big despite not playing well. We're trying to emulate NZ at all levels of rugby here, this is definitely part of it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Sky Sports bizarrely gave him a 4!!

 

[TobesHodges]

At least when we had Farrell in the team we looked good defensivly and had some shape in attack, albiet not a lot of spicy..

I dont know the answer, I think we do miss Farrell's leadership (I say through gritted teeth), we've missed Underhill an out and out tackler, we've missed our potent finishers in May and Watson, Malins isnt a winger, I'm not sure why Hassle-Collins hasn't been on but thats up for debate and i think we have a real problem at scrum-half with Ben Youngs starting the age out, IMO if Randall is good enough then Jack Maunder and Andy Uren should be in the conversation both have been top 5 scrum halfs in the prem for the last 2-3 years.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Smith is a really talented player but what ever England have tried in the backs so far this 6 nations it hasn't really worked. Slade is a good player but is playing him at 12 getting the most out of him?
Malins may not have the x factor of others but he's a decent player and I would say the problem is more the 10-12-13 combo more than him.

 

[Wasps92]

Sadly Radwan is suffering for playing a side that gives him very little ball...and anything he does get is horrible...

Difficult to develop any "work ons" which Jones may have given him...

He probably needs to move on to develop his game more as to what Jones requires.

He does need a move mind. Not sure how long he has left on his contract but if he wants to have an England career he needs to leave Newcastle.

 

[Reiser99]

I'm still firmly in the camp that it is Jones' selections and tactics rather than the players.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Smith is a really talented player but what ever England have tried in the backs so far this 6 nations it hasn't really worked. Slade is a good player but is playing him at 12 getting the most out of him?
Malins may not have the x factor of others but he's a decent player and I would say the problem is more the 10-12-13 combo more than him.

I was impressed by Malins, him and Conway were a lot better than the beefy wingers. Lowe did well, he plays almost like a tight carrier out on the wing and creates high quality ball whenever he gets it but he doesn't have the nuance of the other guys and is still worth 2-3 defensive errors.

For Ireland I'm still 50/50 on Lowe v Hansen, Lowe has a lot of unique skills that we rely on heavily at times but I think Hansen could be the better wing as long as he's not just benefitting from being an unknown factor. A fit Stockdale would be my pick. Conway is turning into a "test match animal" (hate that term) he's really peaked whenever he's wearing green for the last 12-18 months.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm still firmly in the camp that it is Jones' selections and tactics rather than the players.

Do we have any players that play better at international than club level?
Like LFA mentions, above, with Conway stepping up to the plate in an Ireland shirt - and how most Wales players play better for Wales than their clubs

All of ours look worse than they do for their clubs

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Do we have any players that play better at international than club level?
Like LFA mentions, above, with Conway stepping up to the plate in an Ireland shirt - and how most Wales players play better for Wales than their clubs

All of ours look worse than they do for their clubs

This is an argument I've been making for a while. When Jones first arrived, I'd say they did. Now though, I can't think of a single player who performs better for England than their club, maybe Itoje on a good day.

 

[Jakedood]

I think a couple of things have to really stand out from that performance

1. That was the best performance from an english OC I've seen in some time, against quality opposition anyway, Marchant looked physical, ran strong lines, and in defense was impeccable and ferocious.

2. Can argue some penalties in the scrum, but even then you can see Furlong buckling to his knees at times, shortening his binds to deal with Genge and wasnt entirely legal either (no prop ever is are they?) so you'd have to say that massive praise to Genge, and also Jamie George at hooker, for splitting Furlong so well. Englands scrum hasnt looked dominant like that for some time

3. Malins still doesnt look like a wing in any sense. James Lowe has his weaknesses, but you can see, especially with Freddie Steward at full back, the importance of a winger who doesnt just finish, but can beat defenders and make line breaks, and I just dont think Malins has the pace to do so

4. Englands intensity in defense was really something to behold. I dont know who the defense coach is at the moment, but the line speed, and physicality is top notch, and potentially on par with France, though they do have the odd tendency to switch off and get exploited (as in Darcy Graham try v Scotland)

 

[HamJan]

Does anybody know when the squad replacements will be announced?

 

[Jashay]

4. Englands intensity in defense was really something to behold. I dont know who the defense coach is at the moment...

I had to go and look it up; Anthony Seibold, a Rugby League player and coach with no previous Union experience before becoming England's defence coach in September 2021, having been fired as the coach of the Brisbane Broncos after repeated record-breaking defeats and their worst season on record.

I'm just skimming wikipedia for that, so I'm sure I'm missing some nuance, but that feels like such a strange appointment! Fair play to him if the Ireland game wasn't just a one-off.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

.

I had to go and look it up; Anthony Seibold, a Rugby League player and coach with no previous Union experience before becoming England's defence coach in September 2021, having been fired as the coach of the Brisbane Broncos after repeated record-breaking defeats and their worst season on record.

I'm just skimming wikipedia for that, so I'm sure I'm missing some nuance, but that feels like such a strange appointment! Fair play to him if the Ireland game wasn't just a one-off.

Well the game before we conceded 3 to a moderate Wales and here the doomsters from Saturday (for once I'm not one of them) will also note that we conceded 4. Let's see what Fra brings before starting to reach any conclusions.

For a team that, allegedly, has World Cup ambitions I still find it astonishing that we're hiring people like Siebold and Gleeson who, whatever their potential, are still in union nappies.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Excluding Italy, tries for and against:
2018 - For 7, Against 7
2019 - For 16, Against 11
2020 - For 9, Against 9
2021 - For 6, Against 9
2022 - For 2, Against 8

Our attack has absolutely fallen through the floor since 2019, which itself was a blip compared to the years surrounding it. We are leaking more tries, scoring fewer and had our first ever negative points difference in a 6N. We are now on course to potentially have our 2nd ever negative points difference and worst ever back to back 6N's, short of a massive turnaround in Paris. Jones has got to ******* go. The only lower we can get is the wooden spoon. I don't see how he can turn this around by the world cup, there is no sign of any improvement in any facet of our game. Hell there isn't even the sign of something we are trying but it simply isn't clicking, the whole thing looks clueless.