2021 British & Irish Lions Squad

[anderton46]

If Gats wanted him in the environment why didn't AWJ travel to SA in the first place?

Your second sentence is complete nonsense, Sexton isn't as good as he once was but the idea any of fly-halves that were taken were clearly better is ludicrous.

Think you have a bit of Sexton bias there bud. Guy would be broken in half 10 mins into the game. Surprised you aren't outraged Wilkinson wasn't picked either.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Guy would be broken in half 10 mins into the game.

What about 7mins?

 

[dullonien]

Plus I don't know how any conversation where Smith's sheer inexperience against Sexton doesn't come up and how you even begin to justify it. There's no evidence Smith can do it at international level what he does at domestic it become a massive gamble.

Inexperienced players are certainly a gamble to some extent, but they have payed off in the past. Hell the last lions tour, NZ picked a kid on the wing with 2 caps I think who went on to be one of the players of the series.

Look back to previous Lions squads show quite a few inexperienced players who made their mark - Martin Johnson, Guscott, Bentley, Greenwood, even Jason Robinson's switch from League...

 

[Groundhog]

Think you have a bit of Sexton bias there bud. Guy would be broken in half 10 mins into the game. Surprised you aren't outraged Wilkinson wasn't picked either.

An English fan has a Sexton bias..... Over English player Marcus Smith? He's not the best player in the world anymore and is on the decline, but he has had the better of pretty much every international 10 he's come against this year. He's still very much a test match animal who can go against top test sides and win. I'd absolutely want him in a series of games like this.

 

[ncurd]

Inexperienced players are certainly a gamble to some extent, but they have payed off in the past. Hell the last lions tour, NZ picked a kid on the wing with 2 caps I think who went on to be one of the players of the series.

Look back to previous Lions squads show quite a few inexperienced players who made their mark - Martin Johnson, Guscott, Bentley, Greenwood, even Jason Robinson's switch from League...

I'm not arguing against genuine bolters I'm all for LRZ getting a test berth. However how many of those players had test caps against real opposition before their Lions call up? That's the issue with Smith we don't have any information, Canada are worse than domestic opposition, Quins lost both against Munster and Racing92 in the Champions Cup and lost against Ulster in the Challenge Cup at European level.

This isn't dismissing his potential as a player but just looking at the the fact he is so inexperienced at this level (with none) and coupled with this tour unlike a previous players could just be ruled on the day of a macth because of COVID. You need to be extra sure players can step up into a test at a moments notice as a starter.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Sexton is better than Farrell and better than Smith.

Not sure what else there is to say.

 

[dullonien]

I'm not arguing against genuine bolters I'm all for LRZ getting a test berth. However how many of those players had test caps against real opposition before their Lions call up? That's the issue with Smith we don't have any information, Canada are worse than domestic opposition, Quins lost both against Munster and Racing92 in the Champions Cup and lost against Ulster in the Challenge Cup at European level.

This isn't dismissing his potential as a player but just looking at the the fact he is so inexperienced at this level (with none) and coupled with this tour unlike a previous players could just be ruled on the day of a macth because of COVID. You need to be extra sure players can step up into a test at a moments notice as a starter.

All of them, hence why they were genuine bolters at the time.

As for Smith, he's been pitting in consistently excellent performances for quins for a few years now and should probably have a number of caps for England by now if Jones wasn't such a fuckwit. He's not come from nowhere in the space of a couple of months, he's been building and building.

As for Europe, fair enough I suppose, but that's a team thing, hence why I brought up the Ireland WC thing earlier. Those failures aren't on Sexton, and the European failures aren't on Smith, but of the team as a whole inc. coaches given the turnaround since Gustard's departure.

Harlequins being poor in Europe and Smith being a very, very good player - both statements can be true.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

All of them, hence why they were genuine bolters at the time.

As for Smith, he's been pitting in consistently excellent performances for quins for a few years now and should probably have a number of caps for England by now if Jones wasn't such a fuckwit. He's not come from nowhere in the space of a couple of months, he's been building and building.

As for Europe, fair enough I suppose, but that's a team thing, hence why I brought up the Ireland WC thing earlier. Those failures aren't on Sexton, and the European failures aren't on Smith, but of the team as a whole inc. coaches given the turnaround since Gustard's departure.

Harlequins being poor in Europe and Smith being a very, very good player - both statements can be true.

Disagree on that.
Maybe a couple of caps v like Italy or some tier 2 teams like Scotland.

But really prior to this season you had 2 10's who whilst not the best of form did get to a RWC final and whilst Smith had been good in the league he wasn't imo playing better than Ford till this season and it's not like Eddie has been capping anyone else at 10 instead either.

 

[Dean Cooperfield-West]

What's the real difference between Smith and Simmonds. Simmonds was essentially unproven at international level. He'd only played against some weak opposition years ago

 

[ncurd]

All of them, hence why they were genuine bolters at the time.

As for Smith, he's been pitting in consistently excellent performances for quins for a few years now and should probably have a number of caps for England by now if Jones wasn't such a fuckwit. He's not come from nowhere in the space of a couple of months, he's been building and building.

As for Europe, fair enough I suppose, but that's a team thing, hence why I brought up the Ireland WC thing earlier. Those failures aren't on Sexton, and the European failures aren't on Smith, but of the team as a whole inc. coaches given the turnaround since Gustard's departure.

Harlequins being poor in Europe and Smith being a very, very good player - both statements can be true.

Robinson capped by England in the 6 nations.
Johnson 1st capped against France in 5 nations.

Greenwood and Guscott are fair.

Its less about those being failures in terms of Smith (and quins as a whole) again its that inexperience. Because of them he doesn't have a run against top opposition in Europe so its really hard to gague if he's ready in 11 days to be a starting 10 for the Lions. We know with Sexton that he will.

 

[ncurd]

What's the real difference between Smith and Simmonds. Simmonds was essentially unproven at international level. He'd only played against some weak opposition years ago

The only reason for calling up Simmonds is so you don't call up B. Vunipola. As noted with the Beard call up it wasn't really noticeable as weird call up because it was the main squad and they were other far more awful decisions. The Smith call up is under more scrutiny because its a singular event on its own.

Simmonds is also a a Champions Cup winner so if unproven internationally has show his ability at the European level.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

What's the real difference between Smith and Simmonds. Simmonds was essentially unproven at international level. He'd only played against some weak opposition years ago

Simmonds shouldn't have gone either, tbf

Should've been Stander

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Simmonds shouldn't have gone either, tbf

Should've been Stander

Bloody English bias towards the Irish again.

 

[Groundhog]

English simps

 

[Welsh Exile]

 

[Dean Cooperfield-West]

For the sake of fairness, I hope he plays and has a decent game on Saturday. He's obviously going to be parachuted into the team so he should at least justify his selection on Saturday.

I hope he doesn't take captaincy off Murray.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

oh wow he's returned to the welsh team.

Might support the lions now

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Let's hope he's not lost his ability to weakly tackle, be ineffective at rucks and moan at ref.

Can't believe they are even considering bringing him back. Worst lock on tour maybe close to Beard.

 

[Dean Cooperfield-West]

He knows he's the worst one on tour, he knows it's his last tour and all he wants to do is be parachuted in, play ineffectively in a few tests and hope the rest of the team carries him to glory. He doesn't have the team's best interest at heart

 

[AlRums]

Hello be nothing more than a target