[2020 Autumn Nations Cup] Wales vs England (28/11/20)

[Vieux Talonneur]

Devoto ticks the 12 boxes and there's always a possibility that Mallinder might come good. But Jones likes a bosher in there so unless Manu can be glued back together then Lawrence it is.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Realistically Cam should've had a look in vs Italy or Georgia, he was an apprentice for 2 years, surely worth a run out in a gimme? This international period has been a mess, though.

I completely forgot about Devoto, I'm a fan of him but EJ doesn't seem to be - which is odd, because he's what EJ would seem to want in a 12 (distributor but not lacking in physicality).
Don't think EJ even knows Luke James' name, even though he's like EJ's dream back (because he can play backrow, centre or fullback)

then Lawrence it is

Doubt that, considering he played 13 alongside Slade at 12 - despite Slade's favoured position being 13

 

[klitarris]

Too soon for Redpath to be anything more than an apprentice player (but he should be there for that).
I'd like to see what Devoto and James could do at 12 as well - at least to take a look at them in training.

Personally, I'd also like to see Slade play 12 outside Ford

I'm a fan of Devoto too, a bit of a unit who can also distribute pretty well.

Agree wrt Slade at 12. He hasn't impressed there so far but it's been outside Farrell which, between him and the gameplan, hasn't really given Slade the chance to excel there.

 

[BPM]

In fairness to Eddie, how often has Devoto put together a run of games? The ability is there, but he is very injury prone and is often behind Whitten in the pecking order at Exeter, which doesn't really scream 'pick me' for England.

All this 'must find' a 12 business needs to be rooted in reality. If there isn't an obvious alternative, we can't make one up and I'd rather we didn't copy the Welsh and Irish route.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Doubt that, considering he played 13 alongside Slade at 12 - despite Slade's favoured position being 13

They did mix and match a bit tho eg Lawrence was at 12 for the defensive set that led to May's 2nd try. Jones seems to like a bosher in the centre and assuming that Sharks bloke isn't fit then Lawrence would seem to be the obvious choice. Personally I'd have him as 12 and Slade at 13.

We do have legitimate options. But Redpath, Manu and Faz for example all play very differently which has a knock on effect to game plans and other selections. Injuries permitting we should pick our man and stick with him.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Feeling more confident with Liam Williams and Justin Tipuric being out as for my money, they're Wales' best two players, but as many posters have already said, Wales always raise their game against England, especially in Wales. It'll be close.

I think a lot of England's kicking is an effort to get the opposition to kick it back to them, thus allowing England to launch an attack against a defence that isn't set and exploit the gaps that that creates. The thing that's killing our attack is that passes rarely hit the receiving player in stride. Instead they go a little behind them or in front of them, forcing them to check their runs, which then affects the timing of supporting runners, the timing of the next pass etc. All these little split seconds lost from inaccurate passes give an advantage to the uprushing defence. England's passing was woefully inaccurate against Ireland, it needs to be much better against Wales.

Btw, surely Ben Earl is Eddie's future 12?

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Wales looks to be massively outclassed in the backrow and midfield. I feel really sorry for Pivac, it feels like he's trying to breed a litter from a neutered dog. Bookies give England 16pt start, I think that's underestimating their superiority. If the backrow doesn't perform, the front five will be under pressure and it could get ugly. Faletau needs to regain the form that made him one of the best 8's in the world, hes a shadow of that player. Players need to unexpectedly emerge and England needs to misfire to even keep the score close, an empty stadium makes home advantage an irrelevance. England by 20-30 pts

Home advantage an irrelevance? In Wales?! England by 20-30!?!

Can I please have some of what you're smoking, it sounds great!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Feeling more confident with Liam Williams and Justin Tipuric being out as for my money, they're Wales' best two players, but as many posters have already said, Wales always raise their game against England, especially in Wales. It'll be close.

I think a lot of England's kicking is an effort to get the opposition to kick it back to them, thus allowing England to launch an attack against a defence that isn't set and exploit the gaps that that creates. The thing that's killing our attack is that passes rarely hit the receiving player in stride. Instead they go a little behind them or in front of them, forcing them to check their runs, which then affects the timing of supporting runners, the timing of the next pass etc. All these little split seconds lost from inaccurate passes give an advantage to the uprushing defence. England's passing was woefully inaccurate against Ireland, it needs to be much better against Wales.

Btw, surely Ben Earl is Eddie's future 12?

Youngs is the worst culprit for that, I swear he just flat out refuses to pass to a player unless they are static. So many times he's been ready with the ball, a player makes a run and he simply doesn't pass. That player is then out the game and he pops it to the static forward behind who had been expecting to be an offloading option or to clear out the ruck, completely messing up our attack.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Youngs is the worst culprit for that, I swear he just flat out refuses to pass to a player unless they are static. So many times he's been ready with the ball, a player makes a run and he simply doesn't pass. That player is then out the game and he pops it to the static forward behind who had been expecting to be an offloading option or to clear out the ruck, completely messing up our attack.

I agree with that. I honestly don't think England's plan was to play so much without the ball (as the media seem to be saying), I think that just happened because they struggled so much in attack, and that struggle happened because their passing was so dreadful. That might be a reason they ended up kicking it away so often, coz attacking moves were breaking down through bad passing. And I'm not really sure why. Most of these players have been together for some time, and last year we saw them score a lot of tries, many of them featuring excellent passing, so why now are they so off? Maybe it does all start with halfbacks, coz as well as Youngs throwing it at every body part but the hands, Farrell's passing has been shaky too. Maybe they're putting everybody else off?

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Ding ding ding: winner!
Wiggy started vs Ireland in 18,
The others are Youngs, Care and Heinz
All Robson's caps are from the bench

For a moment I lived in a world where Heinz didn't exist.

The passing troubles are weird. Under Eddie a lot of England's most potent attack has consisted of getting the ball wide very quickly with hard flat passing, often scarily close to the defence (weirdly I also don't remember many/any intercepts against England?). Watch any of the full year try compilations from '16, '17, '18 or '19 and it's very prominent- with the same players!?

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

For a moment I lived in a world where Heinz didn't exist.

The passing troubles are weird. Under Eddie a lot of England's most potent attack has consisted of getting the ball wide very quickly with hard flat passing, often scarily close to the defence (weirdly I also don't remember many/any intercepts against England?). Watch any of the full year try compilations from '16, '17, '18 or '19 and it's very prominent- with the same players!?

Exactly this. I'm pretty sure I remember the first try against Ireland in the 2019 6-Nations had Farrell throwing a flat pass across the face of the Irish defence, cutting out the midfield and hitting May on the wing. It was a super-risky pass, but Farrell threw it like a laser, lightning fast and pinpoint accurate, which was the only way it could possibly work. But lately, Farrell's been throwing like a donkey and the rest of the team are following their captain's lead.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Feeling more confident with Liam Williams and Justin Tipuric being out as for my money, they're Wales' best two players, but as many posters have already said, Wales always raise their game against England, especially in Wales. It'll be close.

I think a lot of England's kicking is an effort to get the opposition to kick it back to them, thus allowing England to launch an attack against a defence that isn't set and exploit the gaps that that creates. The thing that's killing our attack is that passes rarely hit the receiving player in stride. Instead they go a little behind them or in front of them, forcing them to check their runs, which then affects the timing of supporting runners, the timing of the next pass etc. All these little split seconds lost from inaccurate passes give an advantage to the uprushing defence. England's passing was woefully inaccurate against Ireland, it needs to be much better against Wales.

Btw, surely Ben Earl is Eddie's future 12?

I don't think we've been ambitious enough but you're bang on with the passing point. See my previous post on Slade's role in May's wonder (or should that be long range with miscued kick) try.

With the intensity of modern defences that accuracy really matters. Long miss passes are fantastic when they work, but the longer the ball is in the air the easier it is for defences to realign or intercept. A well timed short pass can totally take an opponent out of the game.....other fads come and go, but that's one of the game's eternal truisms.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

I don't think we've been ambitious enough but you're bang on with the passing point. See my previous post on Slade's role in May's wonder (or should that be long range with miscued kick) try.

With the intensity of modern defences that accuracy really matters. Long miss passes are fantastic when they work, but the longer the ball is in the air the easier it is for defences to realign or intercept. A well timed short pass can totally take an opponent out of the game.....other fads come and go, but that's one of the game's eternal truisms.

I honestly think this is why the All-Blacks have been so good for so long. Their passing accuracy is incredible and it unlocks defences like nothing else.

 

[Blindside]

Home advantage an irrelevance? In Wales?! England by 20-30!?!

Can I please have some of what you're smoking, it sounds great!

The proof will be in the early Christmas pudding an empty stadium is an empty stadium.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Btw, surely Ben Earl is Eddie's future 12?

Unironically wouldn't mind seeing that

Probably faster than Farrell and Manu these days

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Unironically wouldn't mind seeing that

Probably faster than Farrell and Manu these days

Simmonds and Earl, the new forwards centres!

 

[higgik]

Too soon for Redpath to be anything more than an apprentice player (but he should be there for that).
I'd like to see what Devoto and James could do at 12 as well - at least to take a look at them in training.

Personally, I'd also like to see Slade play 12 outside Ford

Simmonds, Devoto, Slade
Back 3
May, Coka, Daly

 

[TRF_Olyy]

England Rugby on Instagram: "What is your favourite ever moment against Wales? We couldn’t pick one so we chose six instead 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 Watch live tomorrow on @primevideosport from 16:00 GMT 🌹#WALvENG #AutumnNationsCup"

49K likes, 888 comments - englandrugby on November 27, 2020: "What is your favourite ever moment against Wales? We couldn’t pick one so we chose six instead 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 Watch live tomorrow on @primevideosport from 16:00 GMT 🌹#WALvENG #AutumnNationsCup".

www.instagram.com

Had completely forgotten Underhill's trysaver, absolute beauty

 

[spartan32]

Can't help but feel this in England's to lose today. Yes Wales are at home, but with no crowd, no songs, no harassment of the away coach, no Goat, and no Principality Stadium, much of that potency is gone. England are clearly in the ascendancy with consistency in their coach, strength in depth, and coming off the back of some strong performances. Wales on the other hand are way down the world rankings, and not at all in any kind of stride. I'm sure they would love to start their rebuild with a win against us, but wishing it so won't make it so.

Happy enough with EJs selection for today, although would have liked to have seen Marler rolled out for this one. Love that guy. Glad Ford is back at 10, hopefully give us a more attacking mind set, Slade back where he belongs, and a decent pack. Should be a good game.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

The proof will be in the early Christmas pudding an empty stadium is an empty stadium.

I'm sure the Welsh players, coaches, trainers, medics, groundstaff etc etc will make enough noise to make it feel like a home game, and the Welsh players will be desperate to win this one. I fear the only pudding today will be the England number 8.