[2020 Autumn Nations Cup] England vs Ireland (21/11/20)

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I really don't understand Billy being kept in vs Earl who offers so much more. I think Billy would do well as a 20 minute impact player (when he's actually got his head in the game).

 

[TRF_Olyy]

There is mumblings of POM at 7.

2015 England coach and not playing an openside: Name a more iconic duo

 

[TRF_Olyy]

England's 25:

BACKS
Elliot Daly (Saracens, 44 caps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 85 caps)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 69 caps)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 52 caps)
Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, 2 caps)
Max Malins (Bristol Bears, 1 cap)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 58 caps)
Dan Robson (Wasps, 4 caps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 31 caps)
Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby, 1 cap)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 101 caps)

FORWARDS
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 25 caps)
Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby, 2 caps)
Ben Earl (Bristol Bears, 5 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 20 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 51 caps)
Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, 1 cap)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 40 caps)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 66 caps)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 8 caps)
Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 37 caps)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 5 caps)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 19 caps)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 53 caps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 61 caps)



My guess is Ludlam and one of Thorley/Ford dropping out (Ford late fitness test to determine whether he makes the bench?)

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

If POM starts at 7 Farrell has lost me. And I have a big mouth, live in Leinster's rugby hotspot and work in a sector that has a huge amount of rugby fans so it's pretty much it for him.

Edit: In fact, this voice recording I sent to the lads was leaked and is going viral on twitter which shows how influential I am.

 

[munstermuffin]

Whatever about POM it seems Earls was sent to media duties this evening so must mean he's starting. Means Keenan or Conway or both are dropped.

Or is Stockdale still out after rumours from last week lol

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Great to see Malins in as the 10/15 rather than Furbank. Didn't think he was poor against Italy TBH but seems he was poor enough for EJ to drop him.

 

[BiggusLaddus]

That'll be Joseph on the wing again then?

 

[Leinster Fan]

Ireland (possible) v England: Stockdale; Keenan, Farrell, Aki, Lowe; Burns, Murray; Healy, Kelleher, Porter, Ryan (capt), Roux, Stander, Connors, Doris. Replacements: Heffernan, E Byrne, Bealham, Henderson or Beirne, O'Mahony, Gibson-Park, R Byrne, Earls.

Thornley's team.

 

[munstermuffin]

Ireland (possible) v England: Stockdale; Keenan, Farrell, Aki, Lowe; Burns, Murray; Healy, Kelleher, Porter, Ryan (capt), Roux, Stander, Connors, Doris. Replacements: Heffernan, E Byrne, Bealham, Henderson or Beirne, O'Mahony, Gibson-Park, R Byrne, Earls.

Thornley's team.

Thornley usually good. However Independent saying:

- Ross Byrne to start
- Henderson to start as well as Peter O'Mahony very likely
- Keith Earls to start

At least we giving the youth a fair chance.

 

[Geordie]

So No Willis and Ewells. Interesting. Dont get dropping Willis

Slade needs a BIG game this weekend.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Thornley usually good. However Independent saying:

- Ross Byrne to start
- Henderson to start as well as Peter O'Mahony very likely
- Keith Earls to start

At least we giving the youth a fair chance.

I wouldn't be surprised if both are just guessing. Indo either knows something or going all in on Ryan's press conference.

 

[Leinster Fan]

15. Hugo Keenan (UCD/Leinster) 3
14. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 85
13. Chris Farrell (Young Munster/Munster) 11
12. Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 28
11. James Lowe (Leinster) 1
10. Ross Byrne (UCD/Leinster) 8
9. Jamison Gibson-Park (Leinster) 3
1. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 101
2. Ronan Kelleher (Lansdowne/Leinster) 4
3. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 29
4. Quinn Roux (Galwegians/Connacht) 13
5. James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 29
6. CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 43
7. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 70
8. Caelan Doris (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 5

Replacements:

16. Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 13
17. Ed Byrne (UCD/Leinster) 3
18. Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht) 12
19. Iain Henderson (Academy/Ulster) 55
20. Will Connors (UCD/Leinster) 3
21. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 84
22. Billy Burns (UIster) 1
23. Jacob Stockdale (Lurgan/Ulster) 30

Actually not too annoyed other than POM at 7, and I understand the logic behind that decision. Think Tom Curry will probably the happiest about it though.

I'm even okay with Earls starting given the sheer lack of caps in the rest of the backline.

 

[big ginger 8]

I can live with POM at 7 mostly because it means we're not dropping two of our most impactful players. VDF wasn't great against Wales and hasn't been super impactful against England in the past. Connors tackling could have been very valuable but hopefully POM can win a few turnovers.

The switching of Doris and Stander is interesting, Doris is more of a playmaker and has better ball skills so I like it.

Delighted to see Kelleher retained, was worried he wouldn't be. Tough on Beirne but Roux was good last week and Henderson would be ahead of both if he was fully up and running. Actually more confident in our scrum now.

JGP is the right decision at 9. Would probably have rathered Burns at 10 but if he's been going through HIA protocols he probably hasn't been able to train much this week. Also good to see how Byrne gets on with a quicker 9.

Earls just baffles me tbh there's not a lot of 33 year old wingers running around and he's just back from injury.

Our bench actually has some potential impact for the first time in a while.

Happier with the team than I was expecting but still expecting England to win relatively comfortably. Just hoping for a performance.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

"and then Faz said he's starting POM at 7"

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

JGP and Keenan the only positive and not obvious selections in my opinion. Looks like we're playing into England's hands at 14, 10, 7, 7, 7 and 7 though. Still think we'll lose big.

Not happy.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Looks like we're playing into England's hands at 14

I'm well established as being anti-Earls, but we're gonna shoehorn a centre in on the wing so I don't think it'll be a mismatch there
I don't know much about Byrne but Farrell is off form and sticking rigidly to a terrible gameplan.

Anyone know who's the ref? Breakdown interpretation could be key here - we'll scrap for everything on the floor, and with a prem-style ref will make hay.
Ireland's backrow looks more set for a clearout type of gameplan than a turnover one

 

[big ginger 8]

I'm well established as being anti-Earls, but we're gonna shoehorn a centre in on the wing so I don't think it'll be a mismatch there
I don't know much about Byrne but Farrell is off form and sticking rigidly to a terrible gameplan.

Anyone know who's the ref? Breakdown interpretation could be key here - we'll scrap for everything on the floor, and with a prem-style ref will make hay.
Ireland's backrow looks more set for a clearout type of gameplan than a turnover one

Someone earlier said Gauzere, so expect a free for all.

I actually this is our best backrow from the squad for forcing turnovers, unless you out Beirne in it. VDF and Connors aren't really groundhogs. We're crying out for Leavy to get back to his best.

 

[munstermuffin]

I actually like that team. Plenty of interest and good mix. The 6 and 8 switch may actually be the winning of the game. POM probably deserves the start on form and Connors will be impact.
JGP deserves start and will be interesting to see how he goes this week.
Roux also deserves his spot

 

[Leinster Fan]

Realistically POM was always going to be picked having had his annual good game, combined with a new captain and an inexperienced hooker. Actually prefer having him at 7 than dropping Doris. Connors was a bit underwhelming against France/Saracens, and Josh has struggled against England in the past and wasn't great against Wales. Still the wrong call but understandable this week. Biggest winner is Curry though.

JGP, Keenan and Kelleher are the positives for me. All players who should start but I was worried wouldn't. Beirne is unlucky but Henderson starting isn't ideal and not convinced Beirne would be able to make much of an impact in the second row against England (we should really look at him in the backrow). I'm as anti-Earls as anyone but I can understand him being picked, the alternatives are playing an injured and shaky Stockdale on the wrong wing, or start an unimpressive Conway (do feel sorry for him though). Again, understand the logic behind Roux's selection but don't think he's good enough.

Better than expected but still not good enough to win. To be fair to Farrell I don't think we have the players right now. Think Ross Byrne deserves this shot. If it doesn't work it doesn't work but at least he'll have had a fair crack at international rugby which he hasn't had so far.

Also very happy that we've seen sense and started picking Doris and CJ in the right positions.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'm well established as being anti-Earls, but we're gonna shoehorn a centre in on the wing so I don't think it'll be a mismatch there
I don't know much about Byrne but Farrell is off form and sticking rigidly to a terrible gameplan.

Earls is 33 and just back from injury, he was never exactly a burner either, a decent international centre should have him on toast unless he's very protected by the midfield.

Byrne is a tidy player but plays deep and slow, I reckon Curry and Underhill are fully torqued looking at that team, two players that they can exploit the **** out of.