[2019 Six Nations] Italy vs Wales (09/02/2019)

[Reiser99]

Either way, it was a win, and I feel Wales can pick up a bonus point win vs a very average/below average Scotland side away.

While Scotland didn't play great, after two poor performances in two weeks I would just go for the win at Murrayfield unless you turn it around and smash us next week. I felt that Wales should have been more ambitious against an Italian side that has been poor defensively and gave themselves too much to do in the second half by not kicking for the corner in the first. Scotland will not be the same and so far nothing in Wales' performances suggests they should be going into the rest of their matches thinking about a BP now. Yes they could do it, but at this point a win should come first. I also have said the same for England against France. Kick the points, win the game and then look for BP. Only against Italy will I advocate going for the BP from the off.

Whatever happens in the rest of the 6 nations, we can all remember where we were. The day that will go down in infamy as the day where Liam Williams actually passed the f***ng ball.

Also now you know how we felt when Mike Brown passed the ball. I'm sure the heart attack rate went up that day for English fans.

 

[JonoCymru]

Always felt we'd win but it was almost a too under strengthened line-up from Gats and it showed. You should be looking to go to Rome and coming away with 5 points. Go full strength...you've got a 2 week break regardless. Italy of 3 or 4 years ago when they beat Ireland and France at home could've won that today.

 

[Reiser99]

Okay so I do feel Welsh media/pundits/players try to spin situations more than most. Maybe I am biased, but it's how I feel. New example.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47187375

Gats says that everyone will be writing Wales off for England game and it's a good position to be in. Direct quote is "A lot of people will write us off, which is a good position to be in. Hopefully we'll go under the radar."

Surely a good position going into the England game would be on the back of a bonus point win and a convincing performance against France. I get for looking for positives, but I said previously that people should also be realistic and I don't think Wales always are. Having said that, maybe he was just responding to the way the question was asked, so I could potentially give the benefit of the doubt.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

Okay so I do feel Welsh media/pundits/players try to spin situations more than most. Maybe I am biased, but it's how I feel. New example.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47187375

Gats says that everyone will be writing Wales off for England game and it's a good position to be in. Direct quote is "A lot of people will write us off, which is a good position to be in. Hopefully we'll go under the radar."

Surely a good position going into the England game would be on the back of a bonus point win and a convincing performance against France. I get for looking for positives, but I said previously that people should also be realistic and I don't think Wales always are. Having said that, maybe he was just responding to the way the question was asked, so I could potentially give the benefit of the doubt.

The bookies aren't buying it with most of them still putting wales as marginal favourites.

 

[bushytop]

Okay so I do feel Welsh media/pundits/players try to spin situations more than most. Maybe I am biased, but it's how I feel. New example.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47187375

Gats says that everyone will be writing Wales off for England game and it's a good position to be in. Direct quote is "A lot of people will write us off, which is a good position to be in. Hopefully we'll go under the radar."

Surely a good position going into the England game would be on the back of a bonus point win and a convincing performance against France. I get for looking for positives, but I said previously that people should also be realistic and I don't think Wales always are. Having said that, maybe he was just responding to the way the question was asked, so I could potentially give the benefit of the doubt.

It's an opinion and your more than entitled to it, opinions are the reason we log on. My opinion is that you're willing to ignore the multitudes of negative comments by Welsh fans, Welsh players and Welsh coaches in an effort to avoid your narrative falling apart.

Last week you quoted a line by George North and this week a line by Gats... but you chose to totally ignore Gats calling George out in public on his defensive lapse last week and the fact that Gats was very downbeat in his post match yesterday evening. If a person is allowed to pick and choose which pieces of evidence to use and which to ignore, any number of inaccuracies can be peddled as fact.

Just try this little experiment, go back and watch all of Eddie Jones' pre-match and post-match interviews last year during England's fall from grace... then pretend he's the Welsh coach and that he is talking about the Welsh team (watch it through a red sweet wrapper if you can, just to add to the effect) and take notes, then when you have watched all of them, remove the 'sweet wrapper' and realise that he is actually referring to the English team and cross reference that with your notes. I think at that point you will realise my point.

A wise man once said you shouldn't believe something just because you want to believe it.

 

[Reiser99]

It's an opinion and your more than entitled to it, opinions are the reason we log on. My opinion is that you're willing to ignore the multitudes of negative comments by Welsh fans, Welsh players and Welsh coaches in an effort to avoid your narrative falling apart.

Last week you quoted a line by George North and this week a line by Gats... but you chose to totally ignore Gats calling George out in public on his defensive lapse last week and the fact that Gats was very downbeat in his post match yesterday evening. If a person is allowed to pick and choose which pieces of evidence to use and which to ignore, any number of inaccuracies can be peddled as fact.

Just try this little experiment, go back and watch all of Eddie Jones' pre-match and post-match interviews last year during England's fall from grace... then pretend he's the Welsh coach and that he is talking about the Welsh team (watch it through a red sweet wrapper if you can, just to add to the effect) and take notes, then when you have watched all of them, remove the 'sweet wrapper' and realise that he is actually referring to the English team and cross reference that with your notes. I think at that point you will realise my point.

A wise man once said you shouldn't believe something just because you want to believe it.

Fair enough.

 

[Chetto4]

Well, unfortunately the game went pretty much as expected. Wales played honestly pretty bad for their standard and still it never looked like they could actually lose the game. Impossible not to be disappointed as an italian fan.
Italy has so many problems that it's diffcult to make a comment about our game, I'll just point out the main things that need to be fixed:
- the breakdown battle was a disaster, we were totally destroyed by Wales, so many penalties conceded for not releasing and not a single turnover created by us.
- way way too many silly mistakes, can't win a game like that if we keep wasting opportunities, Esposito was a disaster on that regard, two great chances wasted in the first 10-15 minutes
- Allan needs to start kicking better, those 3 points missed at the end of the first half were very costly imho, and it wasn't a difficult kick.
- we are just unable to get out of the pressure, no matter how many times we get the ball back. It really felt like every time Wales was in our 22 it was unavoidable that they would have eventually scored. We did a good job in the lineouts and creating some turnovers but we completely failed in getting out of our own half-court. Boxkicking was horrendus.
- it looks like this team is just afraid an not ready to compete. We started with a penalty for not releasing after one pass, just unreal. You can't gift Wales a 9-0 lead in the first 10 minutes and hope to win the game.

For the rest, very few positives. Some individual performances (Steyn was superb, Sisi and Padovani good) and the fact that apparently our fitness is improving, since we played our best rugby in the last 10 minutes in both the first two games. Now ready for the usual irish beatdown in a couple of weeks

P.S. very sad and embarassing to see the Olimpico so empty and quiet. People don't have faith anymore and they have lost interest. It's hard to blame them, so difficult being and italian rugby supporter in these days.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I k

Well, unfortunately the game went pretty much as expected. Wales played honestly pretty bad for their standard and still it never looked like they could actually lose the game. Impossible not to be disappointed as an italian fan.
Italy has so many problems that it's diffcult to make a comment about our game, I'll just point out the main things that need to be fixed:
- the breakdown battle was a disaster, we were totally destroyed by Wales, so many penalties conceded for not releasing and not a single turnover created by us.
- way way too many silly mistakes, can't win a game like that if we keep wasting opportunities, Esposito was a disaster on that regard, two great chances wasted in the first 10-15 minutes
- Allan needs to start kicking better, those 3 points missed at the end of the first half were very costly imho, and it wasn't a difficult kick.
- we are just unable to get out of the pressure, no matter how many times we get the ball back. It really felt like every time Wales was in our 22 it was unavoidable that they would have eventually scored. We did a good job in the lineouts and creating some turnovers but we completely failed in getting out of our own half-court. Boxkicking was horrendus.
- it looks like this team is just afraid an not ready to compete. We started with a penalty for not releasing after one pass, just unreal. You can't gift Wales a 9-0 lead in the first 10 minutes and hope to win the game.

For the rest, very few positives. Some individual performances (Steyn was superb, Sisi and Padovani good) and the fact that apparently our fitness is improving, since we played our best rugby in the last 10 minutes in both the first two games. Now ready for the usual irish beatdown in a couple of weeks

P.S. very sad and embarassing to see the Olimpico so empty and quiet. People don't have faith anymore and they have lost interest. It's hard to blame them, so difficult being and italian rugby supporter in these days.

Keep that chin up Chetto. This time next year we will surely have another coach and most things in the wider setup are positive for the medium to long term.

But yes, pretty much all of that (although I'm contractually obliged to defend Allan and think he is a solid enough performer these days). It almost feels like their is a memo that has been circulated to take it easy on Italy so that they are not humiliated even if you are beating them with your eyes closed.

I know you pointed out Benetton are reliant on their imports, but they have plenty Italian qualified forwards in their pack who seem to perform worse in Italian colours when facing the same, players they do well against in the Pro14. With a pack that doesn't compete there is no hope even if our first choice backs get fit / are selected.

One random thing I'd point out with Italy and France is that the worse the team gets, the more flags they put on the jersey. A sign of the times we live in perhaps.

 

[Dai Yorkshire]

Oh well, C'est la vie, I'm not happy with so many changes disrupts the team and destroys any continuity, I realise you have to bring in some players to build up your strength in depth, but at what cost I don't think anyone who is currently in the welsh team needs to worry about the players that played Saturday.
The scrum Half was too slow around the tackle and breakdown and was no threat with ball in hand, Anscomb will be the 10 for England, Watkins wont move Parks Davis should have passed to Williams when they were attacking but he opted for the wide pass to the winger wrong call, Josh Adams one for the future but always gives his all, I like him,
Our Backrow were OK but outplayed by the Italian BR Navidi I think will be a better choice for 8 against England, But I don't think Youngs or Wainwright are in contention Beard cant go screaming at every one cause the lineout is not working cool heads are needed then..
As for the front row, I like Dee but wasn't his best performance Owens is safe for some time yet, Smith is getting better but still lacks a presence in the scrum, Lee one of his better games is now trying to do more work.

 

[Chetto4]

I k

Keep that chin up Chetto. This time next year we will surely have another coach and most things in the wider setup are positive for the medium to long term.

But yes, pretty much all of that (although I'm contractually obliged to defend Allan and think he is a solid enough performer these days). It almost feels like their is a memo that has been circulated to take it easy on Italy so that they are not humiliated even if you are beating them with your eyes closed.

I know you pointed out Benetton are reliant on their imports, but they have plenty Italian qualified forwards in their pack who seem to perform worse in Italian colours when facing the same, players they do well against in the Pro14. With a pack that doesn't compete there is no hope even if our first choice backs get fit / are selected.

One random thing I'd point out with Italy and France is that the worse the team gets, the more flags they put on the jersey. A sign of the times we live in perhaps.

Problem is, I'm not sure a new coach is the solution, it was the system that struggled producing world class players that can actually compete at the 6N level. Since O'Shea became coach there has been an improvment (or at least it looks like it) on that and more logic in the NT-Pro14 clubs-Domestic clubs relationship and I think that needs to continue for sure. As I said already, maybe COS can stay as DOR and somebody can become the new coach (some people are suggesting Crowley, since he is doing well with Benetton).

Anyways, I agree with you about Allan, I think he's improved a lot as a player in the last couple of years, even as a kicker. But lately he's struggling and that's very costly at this level, especially for us. We just can't waste easy points.

 

[oj121]

Oh well, C'est la vie, I'm not happy with so many changes disrupts the team and destroys any continuity, I realise you have to bring in some players to build up your strength in depth, but at what cost I don't think anyone who is currently in the welsh team needs to worry about the players that played Saturday.
The scrum Half was too slow around the tackle and breakdown and was no threat with ball in hand, Anscomb will be the 10 for England, Watkins wont move Parks Davis should have passed to Williams when they were attacking but he opted for the wide pass to the winger wrong call, Josh Adams one for the future but always gives his all, I like him,
Our Backrow were OK but outplayed by the Italian BR Navidi I think will be a better choice for 8 against England, But I don't think Youngs or Wainwright are in contention Beard cant go screaming at every one cause the lineout is not working cool heads are needed then..
As for the front row, I like Dee but wasn't his best performance Owens is safe for some time yet, Smith is getting better but still lacks a presence in the scrum, Lee one of his better games is now trying to do more work.

Kind of agree with most if that mate. As seen before as far back as when I joined the forum I dont rate Aled Davies. Honest club player but not an international. Carried on the back of the Scarlets team being sucessful. I cant even see him as a regional starter but hey ho.

I thought Watkin played well. He offers more than Parkes in every aspect other than kicking. Manu will use Parkes as a revolving door if he starts. The more I watch the more I think Patchell is the answer at 12. Having him creating there for our back 3 and foxy would be magic. It would allow us to keep Biggar as a game manager without losing the go forward.

Beard is out of form and needs a break. I prefer Seb but he isnt fancied. Cory Hill seems to make the lineout work. He must start.

Wales backrow seem to be missing something and I cant work it would. We have the best 7s in the tournament. Navidi and Moriarty carry well. Tips is decent in the lineout and there are few better BR in the tackle/defence. Maybe we miss someone like Lydiate that does all the nasty unseen work? Sounds harsh as Navidi in particular is always working so damn hard. I am really at a loss as on paper Id fancy our BR against anyone.

I do think we need to use the back 3 more on the inside lines. Adams is working hard for it but against Italy the ponderous ball didnt allow it to work too much. Their lines just seem a bit stale again...

 

[Dai Yorkshire]

the backrow needs balance, saying that if your 6/7 are destructive typs then that on times will carry, saying that I thought Young and Wainwright did OK, but I don't believe Gats will alter the backrow, but Hill into the second row yes and Ball on the bench, give beard time to reflect, I don't watch club rugby so wouldn't know too much about A Davies, but was so slow Italy just formed up a defensive line and waited for us to go again,and as you say Watkin did OK but again I think not enough to change gats mind,
But we have to play much much better against this England side, or we are going to get blown away.

 

[bushytop]

Kind of agree with most if that mate. As seen before as far back as when I joined the forum I dont rate Aled Davies. Honest club player but not an international. Carried on the back of the Scarlets team being sucessful. I cant even see him as a regional starter but hey ho.

I thought Watkin played well. He offers more than Parkes in every aspect other than kicking. Manu will use Parkes as a revolving door if he starts. The more I watch the more I think Patchell is the answer at 12. Having him creating there for our back 3 and foxy would be magic. It would allow us to keep Biggar as a game manager without losing the go forward.

Beard is out of form and needs a break. I prefer Seb but he isnt fancied. Cory Hill seems to make the lineout work. He must start.

Wales backrow seem to be missing something and I cant work it would. We have the best 7s in the tournament. Navidi and Moriarty carry well. Tips is decent in the lineout and there are few better BR in the tackle/defence. Maybe we miss someone like Lydiate that does all the nasty unseen work? Sounds harsh as Navidi in particular is always working so damn hard. I am really at a loss as on paper Id fancy our BR against anyone.

I do think we need to use the back 3 more on the inside lines. Adams is working hard for it but against Italy the ponderous ball didnt allow it to work too much. Their lines just seem a bit stale again...

Yeah I wouldn't mind seeing Patchell get a go at 12. For me, if match fit he would still be my first choice 10... but he's a big lad, with some lovely skills so I think he could go well in the 3/4's too.

 

[oj121]

Yeah I wouldn't mind seeing Patchell get a go at 12. For me, if match fit he would still be my first choice 10... but he's a big lad, with some lovely skills so I think he could go well in the 3/4's too.

My thoughts. Theres so little between the 10s and they all bring something but Patchell is what, 6ft2? Hes quick too and can tackle. We are struggling at 12. Watkin for me is the better option BUT is closer to a Jamie Roberts that our style suits.

 

[Dai Yorkshire]

I'm not really worried about the England game.

 

[TommiG88]

I'm not really worried about the England game.

Me neither mate. 2013 all over again!

 

[bushytop]

My thoughts. Theres so little between the 10s and they all bring something but Patchell is what, 6ft2? Hes quick too and can tackle. We are struggling at 12. Watkin for me is the better option BUT is closer to a Jamie Roberts that our style suits.

Yeah he's around 6.2/6.3 and very nearly 15 stone and just a very 'natural' rugby player, could be his perfect position.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

I'm not really worried about the England game.

In 2013, I was at the England Italy game at Twickenham the week before wales England where we didn't score a try at home a scraped a win with 6 pens.

The atmosphere is very different in this England camp I'm sure. I actually think wales will sneak a win at home but I can't see England getting blown away like that this year .

 

[bushytop]

In 2013, I was at the England Italy game at Twickenham the week before wales England where we didn't score a try at home a scraped a win with 6 pens.

The atmosphere is very different in this England camp I'm sure. I actually think wales will sneak a win at home but I can't see England getting blown away like that this year .

I'd snap your arm off for a sneaked win in two weeks time!

 

[martinspoonboy1]

I'd snap your arm off for a sneaked win in two weeks time!

As would I the other way!