[2019 Rugby Championship] Round 3: Australia vs. New Zealand (10/08/2019)

[smartcooky]

Lolz.

Pal, if referees gave red cards for those every time they happened, games would have to be abandoned for lack of enough players left to play the game.

 

[Icemn]

The challenge was "malicious"...
its a deserved red card...
good thing "it" and the loss happened before the WC

 

[backseat driver]

Aussie are in a good place in their cycle and can be a real contender IMO.
The Issy thing has helped galvanize that team .

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Game was over at half time once Garces gave that ridiculous red card.

Ahahahahahaha

 

[petite]

great for the aussies well played dominated up front! kerevi and koriebete dominated, both scrum halves where fast. they just wanted it more..
can Wales make it to the n1?

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Congrats to Aussie, regardless of anything else they played well!

I thought it was red, everyone in the pub I watched it in thought it was red, I always thought "no arms to the head" would always be given as a red, intent is beside the point, I wish it wasn't so but I would have been very surprised if it wasn't given

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Interesting that nobody has said they enjoyed the game. I thought it was entertaining. What did the northern hemisphere viewers think? Not enough penalty kicks?

That Aussie fella who changed his name isn't very good, is he?

What made you say that? What did you see? I thought he played quite well.

Aussie 6 and 8 are terrible

they have been a weakness for the wallabies this year. Great athletes though and getting better with more experience. I thought their physical presence was strong in this game.

Surely there's some more lads with European experience they can bring in?
JOC White Beale and Lealiifano have been the backbone of everything they've done that's good

Edit: Euro-Faf was the catalyst for the Springboks upturn too

apart from white none of those players improved in Europe though.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Wales #1 in the world.

Well done, Aus. Just seemed like they wanted it more.

 

[duncanb]

Aus deserved win.
In today's game was a Red however much we may or not disagree.
NZ could I guess end up bottom of table if Argies pick up a bonus point win v SA.

 

[McTallshort]

NZ lose then its obviously the refs fault

 

[OneBlackEye]

I might be the only kiwi that enjoyed that game? Total cracker! It was actually the game I expected we would have against SA.

Oz totally deserved the win, card or not. And I think they would have won without the card, but we will never know. The card was correct, as we all know, and the same infringement goes unpunished in every game, as we all know. ****, I just accidently wrote a poem.

Anyway, I think we fielded pretty much our best team other then Rettalick back and dogroll shouldn't even be trusted to drive the team bus. Not because of the card, not much he could have done about that other than teleport himself to another dimension a second before impact.

I rate the mounga 10 barrett 15 combo, and I don't think that was why they lost. I imagine that will be the social media outcry though but I also think Hanson is strong enough to ignore them.

Obviously hard to compare but I don't think any team would have beat the Aussies playing like that in that stadium on that night.

We have a proper Bledisloe final coming up and I can't wait!

 

[87Dreamer]

The challenge was "malicious"...
its a deserved red card...
good thing "it" and the loss happened before the WC

Malicious LMFAO , you obviously never watched rugby league in the 80's .
There was nothing in it, player's dropping just before the point of contact happens all the time. It's not like he charged in, it all happened in a split second.
In today's game it's still a red however

 

[Derpus]

So that was absolutely brillo. Whered that come from?

White MotM. Hooper, MK and Latu notable mentions but everyone impressive.

Consistency will be the issue? Can we back up and do it again at Eden park? I doubt it. At least thr Bled is competitive again for the first time in years.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I was a few jugs deep buy the end of the game so struggling to think where the aussies made their ground, wide channels? Just seemed like I'd look up and they'd made an easy 20m

Who's attack coach for us at the moment? Felt like we were just shovelling it out and trying to do something clever between 13 and 11/14 without making the space for them to do it

We should have been doing whatever we did for Barretts try a bit more, change the angle in midfield to draw in the defence just a little and creat space

I feel Hansen mat be out of ideas other than just changing the team and all that's going to do is mess with the guys confidence and what little combinations we have

Think he may have miss timed his run to be still experimenting this late....I hope I'm wrong

I also watched the Tasman v Wellington game yesterday...squire really wants the black jersey back, he was immense on a muddy track, can only imagine what he would have done with a dry ball

 

[Umaga's Witness]

NZ lose then its obviously the refs fault

Or if they win

 

[Rinkadink]

apart from white none of those players improved in Europe though.

Disagree, JOC in particular but there is an argument for the other two as well although not as compelling.

Anyway, good game to watch ABs were second best throughout and losing when the card was given anyway (plus two scores that could have been disallowed on another day) so there isn't much of a case for saying it cost the match IMO. That was a red all day under current guidelines (that was reinforced this month again for the WC no less), no need to turn in that direction and not offer any arm nor was there really much of a sudden dip. Hooper was clearly targeted by NZ players prior too.

Really pleased for Australia, even though it pains me to say. A strong Aus is good for rugby on the whole, the question is can they sustain that form? Will the ABs bounce back quickly? I can't recall such a defeatist and broken attitude from the men on the pitch before with KR and TJP desperately attempting to rally in the last 10-15.

Good game though, bodes well for the WC.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I might be the only kiwi that enjoyed that game? Total cracker! It was actually the game I expected we would have against SA.

Oz totally deserved the win, card or not. And I think they would have won without the card, but we will never know. The card was correct, as we all know, and the same infringement goes unpunished in every game, as we all know. ****, I just accidently wrote a poem.

Anyway, I think we fielded pretty much our best team other then Rettalick back and dogroll shouldn't even be trusted to drive the team bus. Not because of the card, not much he could have done about that other than teleport himself to another dimension a second before impact.

I rate the mounga 10 barrett 15 combo, and I don't think that was why they lost. I imagine that will be the social media outcry though but I also think Hanson is strong enough to ignore them.

Obviously hard to compare but I don't think any team would have beat the Aussies playing like that in that stadium on that night.

We have a proper Bledisloe final coming up and I can't wait!

I enjoyed it too

Disagree, JOC in particular but there is an argument for the other two as well although not as compelling.

Anyway, good game to watch ABs were second best throughout and losing when the card was given anyway (plus two scores that could have been disallowed on another day) so there isn't much of a case for saying it cost the match IMO. That was a red all day under current guidelines (that was reinforced this month again for the WC no less), no need to turn in that direction and not offer any arm nor was there really much of a sudden dip. Hooper was clearly targeted by NZ players prior too.

Really pleased for Australia, even though it pains me to say. A strong Aus is good for rugby on the whole, the question is can they sustain that form? Will the ABs bounce back quickly? I can't recall such a defeatist and broken attitude from the men on the pitch before with KR and TJP desperately attempting to rally in the last 10-15.

Good game though, bodes well for the WC.

id say joc had a lot of improvement left in him when he went to Europe so it's hard to argue that he improved more over there than he would have in Australia. I'm still not convinced after one game that he has improved hugely anyway.

Beale was just more under the radar beforehand and criminally underrated. He has always been one of Australia's best and I'd actually say he's just less consistent now. He was the standout player in the Waratahs team when they won the super rugby ***le, for instance, not that that's test level but still. Actually in general when good players go overseas they get more visibility so more people say they're good then people look out for their goodness more, invoking confirmation bias.

In saying that, gone are the days that you can guarantee a back who has gone to Europe will come back a worse player.

 

[Larksea]

crazy game, some amazing rugby which I think is unique to games between NZ and AUS when aussie are playing well.
The Red card was deserved I think you could argue that it wasn't intentional and just given a yellow, have to accept the red. I think its a shame for both sides, it did ruin the contest which was 13-12 at the time. I know when the AB's win against a team with 14 it does kinda feel hollow. Fair play to Aussie they took every advantage of the numbers I think most of the tries they scored from that point were text book rugby against 14. Build up phases and wait for the gaps to open. A game at such breakneck speed on such a fast ground will always expose a numerical advantage. Nick white was amazing, made a huge difference for the wallabies.
Not all doom and gloom for NZ
TRC means almost nothing this year so I'm not bothered about that at all. It's almost a disaster to be hitting form right now.
The AB's still scored 4 tries with what must have been less than 30% of posession? it was only 6 tries to 4 despite being a man down for a bit more than a half.
The AB's attack looked a constant threat. And while it was 15 on 15 the defense was solid only 1 Aussie try from an intercept.
Was a shame losing Goodhue so early I really wanted to see that ALB/Goodhue combo. I thought ALB had a superb game, he got stuck in constantly. Broke tackles and made critical tackles, scored a try.
Read is looking better and better. Savea was strong, Cane not so much after he copped a heavy hit and looked injured.
Work on's
need some deep analysis into why we had so little possession. Its normal for the AB's to have less possession, if we get 50/50 normally its a comfortable win but to well below 40% is a major alarm bell.
I'm not sold on Aaron Smith right now, he was involved a lot but I mean he has to be he's the halfback. But he is slowing the ball down and he's not really creating much of a threat on attack he's really just there holding and passing the ball and backing up. Perenara and Weber have both been in better form this year I'd like to see them get more of a go.
Discipline is obviously a major issue hopefully Scott/Savea learn their lesson and others as well. Better learn these lessons now before the WC.
Now back to the red card. yes poor technique from Scott. But this is something I've been seeing for some time.
Since the harsher penalties for head contact have come into the game players are going lower and leading with their heads more to draw penalties. I mean look at that hooper run he was like 1 foot off the ground head first. How do you tackle that front on? Go for the legs and he scores a try. Your points of contact are the head, neck and shoulders. When it all happens in the blink of an eye you're more likely than not going to get the head, its obviously the part that is sticking out...
is this an issue? I don't know, would be interested in some opinions. Could have a rule that requires a ball runner to be high enough to allow a tackler to reasonably make contact with the chest/ball/hips. It sounds drastic but with the impact concussion is having on the modern game I can honestly see rules like this coming in to save the sport from extinction. How can you rightly penalize a defender when the attacker is deliberately driving less than a couple of feet off the ground leading with his head??

 

[Kiwiwomble]

crazy game, some amazing rugby which I think is unique to games between NZ and AUS when aussie are playing well.
The Red card was deserved I think you could argue that it wasn't intentional and just given a yellow, have to accept the red. I think its a shame for both sides, it did ruin the contest which was 13-12 at the time. I know when the AB's win against a team with 14 it does kinda feel hollow. Fair play to Aussie they took every advantage of the numbers I think most of the tries they scored from that point were text book rugby against 14. Build up phases and wait for the gaps to open. A game at such breakneck speed on such a fast ground will always expose a numerical advantage. Nick white was amazing, made a huge difference for the wallabies.
Not all doom and gloom for NZ
TRC means almost nothing this year so I'm not bothered about that at all. It's almost a disaster to be hitting form right now.
The AB's still scored 4 tries with what must have been less than 30% of posession? it was only 6 tries to 4 despite being a man down for a bit more than a half.
The AB's attack looked a constant threat. And while it was 15 on 15 the defense was solid only 1 Aussie try from an intercept.
Was a shame losing Goodhue so early I really wanted to see that ALB/Goodhue combo. I thought ALB had a superb game, he got stuck in constantly. Broke tackles and made critical tackles, scored a try.
Read is looking better and better. Savea was strong, Cane not so much after he copped a heavy hit and looked injured.
Work on's
need some deep analysis into why we had so little possession. Its normal for the AB's to have less possession, if we get 50/50 normally its a comfortable win but to well below 40% is a major alarm bell.
I'm not sold on Aaron Smith right now, he was involved a lot but I mean he has to be he's the halfback. But he is slowing the ball down and he's not really creating much of a threat on attack he's really just there holding and passing the ball and backing up. Perenara and Weber have both been in better form this year I'd like to see them get more of a go.
Discipline is obviously a major issue hopefully Scott/Savea learn their lesson and others as well. Better learn these lessons now before the WC.
Now back to the red card. yes poor technique from Scott. But this is something I've been seeing for some time.
Since the harsher penalties for head contact have come into the game players are going lower and leading with their heads more to draw penalties. I mean look at that hooper run he was like 1 foot off the ground head first. How do you tackle that front on? Go for the legs and he scores a try. Your points of contact are the head, neck and shoulders. When it all happens in the blink of an eye you're more likely than not going to get the head, its obviously the part that is sticking out...
is this an issue? I don't know, would be interested in some opinions. Could have a rule that requires a ball runner to be high enough to allow a tackler to reasonably make contact with the chest/ball/hips. It sounds drastic but with the impact concussion is having on the modern game I can honestly see rules like this coming in to save the sport from extinction. How can you rightly penalize a defender when the attacker is deliberately driving less than a couple of feet off the ground leading with his head??

One of the great things about our game...I thought read was average, almost missing and smith keep the ball fast and as good as every

 

[Umaga's Witness]

crazy game, some amazing rugby which I think is unique to games between NZ and AUS when aussie are playing well.
The Red card was deserved I think you could argue that it wasn't intentional and just given a yellow, have to accept the red. I think its a shame for both sides, it did ruin the contest which was 13-12 at the time. I know when the AB's win against a team with 14 it does kinda feel hollow. Fair play to Aussie they took every advantage of the numbers I think most of the tries they scored from that point were text book rugby against 14. Build up phases and wait for the gaps to open. A game at such breakneck speed on such a fast ground will always expose a numerical advantage. Nick white was amazing, made a huge difference for the wallabies.
Not all doom and gloom for NZ
TRC means almost nothing this year so I'm not bothered about that at all. It's almost a disaster to be hitting form right now.
The AB's still scored 4 tries with what must have been less than 30% of posession? it was only 6 tries to 4 despite being a man down for a bit more than a half.
The AB's attack looked a constant threat. And while it was 15 on 15 the defense was solid only 1 Aussie try from an intercept.
Was a shame losing Goodhue so early I really wanted to see that ALB/Goodhue combo. I thought ALB had a superb game, he got stuck in constantly. Broke tackles and made critical tackles, scored a try.
Read is looking better and better. Savea was strong, Cane not so much after he copped a heavy hit and looked injured.
Work on's
need some deep analysis into why we had so little possession. Its normal for the AB's to have less possession, if we get 50/50 normally its a comfortable win but to well below 40% is a major alarm bell.
I'm not sold on Aaron Smith right now, he was involved a lot but I mean he has to be he's the halfback. But he is slowing the ball down and he's not really creating much of a threat on attack he's really just there holding and passing the ball and backing up. Perenara and Weber have both been in better form this year I'd like to see them get more of a go.
Discipline is obviously a major issue hopefully Scott/Savea learn their lesson and others as well. Better learn these lessons now before the WC.
Now back to the red card. yes poor technique from Scott. But this is something I've been seeing for some time.
Since the harsher penalties for head contact have come into the game players are going lower and leading with their heads more to draw penalties. I mean look at that hooper run he was like 1 foot off the ground head first. How do you tackle that front on? Go for the legs and he scores a try. Your points of contact are the head, neck and shoulders. When it all happens in the blink of an eye you're more likely than not going to get the head, its obviously the part that is sticking out...
is this an issue? I don't know, would be interested in some opinions. Could have a rule that requires a ball runner to be high enough to allow a tackler to reasonably make contact with the chest/ball/hips. It sounds drastic but with the impact concussion is having on the modern game I can honestly see rules like this coming in to save the sport from extinction. How can you rightly penalize a defender when the attacker is deliberately driving less than a couple of feet off the ground leading with his head??

Read was exceptional, best game he has played in a long time and really led by example. I'm not sure the loose trio worked perfectly but it is new and so perhaps needs a few more games. It was a shame they didn't get more time in those roles before they had to adapt to losing a man. This trio would be better with the size of retallick in the team instead of Barrett, as it was we were a little light and got beat up a bit by a bigger pack. Whitelock was very good though in the physical stuff.

I too would have liked to see more of the alb goodhue combo as I think it's a good one. In my selection I pick alb first. And then whoever matches best with him. Ideally you want someone who runs hard at the line, allowing alb more opportunities to create and help turn opportunities into points. You also want someone with a nice spiral pass because that's not alb strength and you want one of your midfielders to have it. That leaves Crotty and goodhue. He has more influence on attack at 12, but is an exceptional defender at 13. I think goodhue brings more physical presence than Crotty and isn't too dissimilar to alb as a defending 13, so to me that is the best combo we've got.

Moli was poor and I wonder if Karl is a better choice. He's a good scrummager which I think is the most important thing for a reserve prop as you don't want to be giving away scrum penalties late in the game.

Bridge was surprisingly quiet. Our depth really isn't looking very solid at the moment.

It's an interesting point regarding Aaron. I think rush defence was the answer to the Aaron smith type game, and the faf type game then was the answer to rush defence, now being employed by the wallabies too. You are probably right that Weber is the best we've got to play this type of game.