[2018 November Tests] England vs New Zealand 10/11/18

[Vieux Talonneur]

Brown is going to Japan and by the way so is Dan Cole Eddie is trying to build back up experience

They'll be travelling alright, as will Robshaw, but not necessarily as first choices. The opportunity is there for others to claim the shirts.

 

[Mr Ruggleby]

Are you implying Ben Youngs has the box kicking skill to actually target people?
He just kicks and hopes for the best.

Targeting someone would also imply we have a kick chase game - 99.9% of the time we don't

Not picking on this comment alone, but there were a lot of people criticising Young's box kicking and England's kick chase in general. I've re-watched the game vs SA and rated every Ben Youngs box kick and the results suggest his kicking game was in fact excellent:

He kicked 13 times in total.
- 5 times England directly won the ball back either through collecting it, the SA catcher going directly into touch, knocking on or on one occasion giving away a penalty that resulted in 3 points for us.
- 2 times the kick was contested in the air or immediately on receipt and SA kept possession.
- Once he kicked into their 22 with no full back cover resulting in the SA recovering defender being tackled 10m from their own line.
- 2 times the ball was kicked directly to touch, once between our 22 and 10m line (average to poor clearance) and once past our 10m line (good clearance).
- 3 times the kick was too far allowing the catcher multiple steps before meeting a defender, on one of these occasions a non-existent chase was to blame, the other two were poor kicks.

All in all, not flawless but certainly nowhere near as bad as many of you have been making out. Winning possession back on nearly 40% of your box kicks is exceptional, especially in an international.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

If Cole and Brown go they have to go as back up squad players. If they are the best we have in their respective positions......

As I just said the opportunity is there for others to claim the places, but whose all round game is better in those shirts though?

We've been discussing Daly. Does his attacking game outweigh Brown's defensive solidity and FB instincts?

Sinckler's more lively in the loose, but there's every chance that he'll spend chunks of tomorrow with his head up his arse courtesy of the ABs 2nd string LH.

They have 150+ caps between them. That's a hell of a lot of experience to chuck away if the competition hasn't made a really persuasive case.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Brown might not be as flashy as some options, but he is completely dependable. He won't set the world on fire with pace like Daly or May, but you know he'll take every high ball and the chances are beat the first defender as well. He's also got the kind of passion that England have seemed to be lacking all too often recently. A World Cup winning team won't be full of superstars, you need a hefty share of players that always put in a decent to good performance reliably too.

Speaking of, is it bad that I think we could do worse than Barritt at 12?

 

[ncurd]

We could do worse, I could get selected we can do a lot better however. Farrell being a far better choice for instance.

 

[Mr Ruggleby]

We could do worse, I could get selected we can do a lot better however. Farrell being a far better choice for instance.

But if Farrell plays 12 who on earth plays 10!?

 

[ncurd]

But if Farrell plays 12 who on earth plays 10!?

I dunno is Andy Goode available?

 

[MikeTheNative]

Flood is still playing isn't he?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I dunno is Andy Goode available?

 

[ncurd]

World Class who needs Sexton?

 

[Bean]

New Zealand to put 100pts on England?


Yes, yes, I think so.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I think Williams all round game is much better than Cole's. For me Sinckler will always be a bench option.

As for FB, we've got loads of choice. To be fair Daly hasn't looked out of place at FB until the South Africa game. But until he's playing wing or FB for wasps we shouldn't be looking at him for England.

For me (and maybe it's just me) I think a team with Brown at FB will never win a World Cup. We have Watson, Hammersly, Woodwood, Mallinder (only joking) and some other good young players in the premiership. Brown does is secure under a high ball and does make ground but he's got a rubbish rugby brain and will ruin chances.

 

[Rinkadink]

Is Ashton really faster than Nowell? I'm not sure he is any more. Didn't the former get chased down and tackled to groud by Ford after a break in the Barbarians match or was I that drunk?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Comfortably, I'd say.

Nowell is probably the slowest winger in tier 1 international rugby

Not that that's me trashing him or anything, I love Nowell.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Comfortably, I'd say.

Nowell is probably the slowest winger in tier 1 international rugby

Not that that's me trashing him or anything, I love Nowell.

That's a depressing read when we've played Dave "sexrave" Kearney and Andrew Trimble in the last two years.

To be honest, I'm more afraid of Nowell than any other England winger. There's ways to stop Ashton, Watson and May ever getting the ball, Daly can be wound up and used against England. (if you go back to the game in Twickenham between us he scored two tries but really had a shocker without the ball) Nowell is more like James Lowe, there's no way a system can defend guys with the ability to bump and hold defenders and then get an offload away or dot it in the corner with three lads hanging off him.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Comfortably, I'd say.

Nowell is probably the slowest winger in tier 1 international rugby

Not that that's me trashing him or anything, I love Nowell.

These days I reckon he could burn Milner-Skudder fairly comfortably.

 

[ncurd]

, there's no way a system can defend guys with the ability to bump and hold defenders and then get an offload away or dot it in the corner with three lads hanging off him.

Sadly we seam to really underrate that skillset it a wing. I like May and Nowell as a combo for the difference in the way they play.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Sadly we seam to really underrate that skillset it a wing. I like May and Nowell as a combo for the difference in the way they play.

May and Cokonasiga would be ideal for the same reason; pose such different attacking threats.

 

[BPM]

Brown is going to Japan and by the way so is Dan Cole Eddie is trying to build back up experience

Brown will. I'm less sure about Cole. He does very little outside of the scrum these days and his scrummaging isn't good enough for that alone to warrant his selection. 'Experience' as a measure of quality is overrated and Williams and Sinckler offer a lot more IMO.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

That's a depressing read when we've played Dave "sexrave" Kearney and Andrew Trimble in the last two years.

To be honest, I'm more afraid of Nowell than any other England winger. There's ways to stop Ashton, Watson and May ever getting the ball, Daly can be wound up and used against England. (if you go back to the game in Twickenham between us he scored two tries but really had a shocker without the ball) Nowell is more like James Lowe, there's no way a system can defend guys with the ability to bump and hold defenders and then get an offload away or dot it in the corner with three lads hanging off him.

Yeah, Nowell is a world class player.

He reminds me of a young Cueto, tbh. Doesn't have the real world class speed/agility of a May/Wade, but makes up for it in game intelligence/running lines and defence (if we ignore the Lions tour...). He's a really classy player.