[2018 November Tests] England v South Africa (3/10/18)

[Kabous]

Man, this is a beefy Bok squad. To have both Duane and Whitely in the back row speaks of an intent to mix things up. PSTD is perfect as lock in heavy NH conditions.

Best frontrowers also starting.

Lood and RG off the bench adds real depth

There are lineout options galore.

Some more beef in Esterhuizen in the backline coming of the bench.

Cant see the Boks not dominating upfront.

Only weakness may be out wide we we dont have too much experience.

Hope Willemse has his stepping shoes on.

 

[Scotty]

So im glad manu is in the team but what if a wing or FB goes down injured... who is the cover? Because manu is not wing cover.

 

[TommiG88]

So im glad manu is in the team but what if a wing or FB goes down injured... who is the cover? Because manu is not wing cover.

Slade to 15 would be my guess. Daly to wing.

 

[Nudger]

I know it's an old argument but I still do not see what the point of dropping Ford is*. I feel there are some very short/selective memories among England fans. England have never really looked very good with Farrell at ten, under Jones and Lancaster the most threatening England have looked has always been with the Ford-Farrell axis - including the last series against SA.

As for Te'o ... Olyy's said it.

Pack I'm reasonably happy with in the circumstances. Looking forward to seeing my boy Zach

Overall though, I'm kind of glad I'm on a plane to Mexico while the game is on TBH, and by the time I get to watch the game on YouTube I'll be lying by a pool or on a beach in Isla Mujeres! So yeah, you guys enjoy the rain and English disappointment!

*Yeah yeah yeah, I know, tackling. Flyhalf play is all about defence, I get it...

Farrell barrett manu took the all blacks apart

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Full back's a key position, right? We're starting with someone who barely plays there for their club covered by someone who barely, if ever, plays there for their club, and possibly someone else who barely, if ever, plays there for their club. This drives me nuts. Why hasn't Woodward been given a shot?

No idea what weather's forecast but the ball will spending a lot of time in the air.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Full back's a key position, right? We're starting with someone who barely plays there for their club covered by someone who barely, if ever, plays there for their club, and possibly someone else who barely, if ever, plays there for their club. This drives me nuts. Why hasn't Woodward been given a shot?

No idea what weather's forecast but the ball will spending a lot of time in the air.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Nowell to full back, if anything happened to Daly. Tuilagi could play wing if necessary (he played there in one of the tests v ABs in 2014).

 

[BPM]

Full back's a key position, right? We're starting with someone who barely plays there for their club covered by someone who barely, if ever, plays there for their club, and possibly someone else who barely, if ever, plays there for their club. This drives me nuts. Why hasn't Woodward been given a shot?

No idea what weather's forecast but the ball will spending a lot of time in the air.

You do realise Daly's played at fullback all season?

Not that long ago, most people (including me) questioned why we'd move a top class 13 on to the wing, but Daly proved that he has the ability and awareness to adapt. I'd back him to do the same at 15 and if he cracks it, one of our ongoing problems will be solved. As well as playing at 15 for Wasps right now, he also spent a good chunk of his age grade rugby there too, so it's not like he's moving to a position that is totally unfamiliar.

It's a risk, but the potential reward is high enough to make it worthwhile.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Nowell to full back, if anything happened to Daly. Tuilagi could play wing if necessary (he played there in one of the tests v ABs in 2014).

.....when he fluffed the kind of 90m sprint for the line that most wingers have wet dreams over. Hell I'd even have backed Nowell to score that. He wasn't a wing then and he isn't one now, not even in an emergency.

I am aware that I may be coming across as glass slightly half empty at the moment.

 

[Which Tyler]

Not to mention, when he was first put on the wing for England, many of said that if we had to play him in the back3, then it should be FB, where he at least had plenty of experience, even if a few years previously.

Quite honestly, I'm still happier with Daly at FB than wing

 

[TheSaffycen]

.....when he fluffed the kind of 90m sprint for the line that most wingers have wet dreams over. Hell I'd even have backed Nowell to score that. He wasn't a wing then and he isn't one now, not even in an emergency.

I am aware that I may be coming across as glass slightly half empty at the moment.

I'd say you're coming across as a glass fully empty guy, and the glass is smashed over the bar and being held at someone's throat.

 

[ncurd]

Watson despite never playing FB for club is our likely full term option. I think Daly getting experience there in case of injury is a sensible choice as he's our most versatile back.

Really not something I'm worried about.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Not to mention, when he was first put on the wing for England, many of said that if we had to play him in the back3, then it should be FB, where he at least had plenty of experience, even if a few years previously.

Quite honestly, I'm still happier with Daly at FB than wing

Same,
I've said it a few times but I've never been convinced by him on the wing - positioning and general wing play wasn't that great, but his general high level rugby ability carried him through/helped make up for the mistakes. He very much looked like someone put on the wing rather than a winger.
Excited to see him get a proper run at 15 for England as I think it could be his best position/most suited for his skill set

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

You do realise Daly's played at fullback all season?

Not that long ago, most people (including me) questioned why we'd move a top class 13 on to the wing, but Daly proved that he has the ability and awareness to adapt. I'd back him to do the same at 15 and if he cracks it, one of our ongoing problems will be solved. As well as playing at 15 for Wasps right now, he also spent a good chunk of his age grade rugby there too, so it's not like he's moving to a position that is totally unfamiliar.

It's a risk, but the potential reward is high enough to make it worthwhile.

I was going by the Wasps website, which has him as starting at 15 twice this season and not since mid September. I guess he's got a few more minutes following substitutions, but while he's not a virgin there you can't say he's a specialist either.

Attacking wise he can be fantastic, but as you say it is a risk. If it doesn't pay off or he gets hurt there's not really a Plan B.

 

[Reiser99]

I think this game will set up the AI's for both sides.

S.A win and play well, then with Faf and Willie to come back they could take a clean sweep and build some momentum going into 2019. Any other result and people might see some chinks in the armour.

If Eng win then they should get 3/4 wins. Just lose and then I can see 2/4, lose badly and 1/4 is a real possibility.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Watson despite never playing FB for club is our likely full term option.

Massive risk to pin your hopes on a fullback who's never played at fullback though. I really think you're playing with fire here.

Same,
I've said it a few times but I've never been convinced by him on the wing - positioning and general wing play wasn't that great, but his general high level rugby ability carried him through/helped make up for the mistakes. He very much looked like someone put on the wing rather than a winger.
Excited to see him get a proper run at 15 for England as I think it could be his best position/most suited for his skill set

I tend to agree, I love having him on the pitch and I actually came round very quickly to the notion of playing him out of position on the wing as a way of getting our best players in the pitch "by any means necessary" (not something I'm generally in favour of) - he's a good enough athlete for that to work.

But, having said that he has significant shortcomings as a winger - notably defensive positioning and catching. I haven't seen him at fullback so I don't know but I can definitely see him working there (although his catching isn't great is it?)

 

[Bada-Bing!]

.....when he fluffed the kind of 90m sprint for the line that most wingers have wet dreams over. Hell I'd even have backed Nowell to score that. He wasn't a wing then and he isn't one now, not even in an emergency.

I am aware that I may be coming across as glass slightly half empty at the moment.

True, but he was hunted down well by Ben Smith, and Brown running in support wasn't on the same wave length as Manu. Brown really should have kept on his shoulder to take the pass as I recall, but instead ran towards the post thinking Manu would follow him.

England don't have that many other options from the 23 who are comfortable at full back and wing - Nowell is the only other one if Daly got knocked out. Has Slade, Ford or Farell played full back before? Certainly not for England if I recall.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm pretty sure May has played a bit of 15 before at club level
I reckon it'd deffo be Nowell moving back though

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

IMO Lozowski is the perfect 22 player (IMO he should be starting 12 though).

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

True, but he was hunted down well by Ben Smith, and Brown running in support wasn't on the same wave length as Manu. Brown really should have kept on his shoulder to take the pass as I recall, but instead ran towards the post thinking Manu would follow him

Right on both counts, but Manu made it easy for Smith by running in a dead straight line. A winger moving at real speed should have been able to stand him up. IIRC that and the subsequent counterattack were the pivotal moments in a one point loss.

Shocking that he's only played 17 minutes for England since that tour.