[2018 November Tests] England v South Africa (3/10/18)

[TRF_heineken]

I thought Mostert was one of the top line out stealers in SR last season?

He was the top at lineouts yes, but that doesn't mean he won the most.

But even then, it doesn't tell the whole story. Neither Snyman nor Lood played as many games as Mostert did, and the Bulls didn't reach the playoffs either...

 

[ncurd]

Forgot Ford was on the bench

Don't worry I'd be surprised if EJ remembered or at least with enough time to make it relevant. Be one of those stupid 2 mins to substitutes.

 

[Saint Matt]

Given the players who are unavailable, I think it's probably as good as we can put out.

My only concern is the fitness of Teo but the coaching staff clearly think he's ready. I'm not sure how he can be test match fit but they'll live and die by these decisions. He's got a really big job on Saturday, with Farrell, Slade, Daly, Nowell and May in the team, he has to ensure we straighten up at the right times and defensively he needs to be really direct and stop everything that moves. There's a lot of pressure on his shoulders. I thought he might have gone with Tuilagi in there.

Forwards are far from my area of expertise but one thing I will say is that we've got players on the bench who can change the game.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Out of all the forwards on the pitch Snyman is the one that worries me the most IMO the best lock in both squads.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I know it's an old argument but I still do not see what the point of dropping Ford is*. I feel there are some very short/selective memories among England fans. England have never really looked very good with Farrell at ten, under Jones and Lancaster the most threatening England have looked has always been with the Ford-Farrell axis - including the last series against SA.

As for Te'o ... Olyy's said it.

Pack I'm reasonably happy with in the circumstances. Looking forward to seeing my boy Zach

Overall though, I'm kind of glad I'm on a plane to Mexico while the game is on TBH, and by the time I get to watch the game on YouTube I'll be lying by a pool or on a beach in Isla Mujeres! So yeah, you guys enjoy the rain and English disappointment!

*Yeah yeah yeah, I know, tackling. Flyhalf play is all about defence, I get it...

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Te'o has no possible way he is international match fit......hell he'd stuggle to be match fit with match time under his belt....

100%. It's a total reputational pick. The Lions was undoubtedly his finest hour, but little since.

I think we've touched on it here before but interesting / worrying that all our biggest ball carriers, who we've pinned our hopes on, have Pacific Island origins and seem to break quite easily.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

*Yeah yeah yeah, I know, tackling. Flyhalf play is all about defence, I get it...

Funny innit? Few who wheel out Faf's tackle on Hughes to prove a point counter balance with this.

 

[MarkyH]

I know it's an old argument but I still do not see what the point of dropping Ford is*. I feel there are some very short/selective memories among England fans. England have never really looked very good with Farrell at ten, under Jones and Lancaster the most threatening England have looked has always been with the Ford-Farrell axis - including the last series against SA.
.

Totally agree. The only issue is a lack of power outside him to draw defenders to the outside backs. This is why Tuilagi should start. We always played better with Ford and Farrell in. The problem has been up front and round the breakdown, and trying to play a one dimensional game plan that doesn't suit our players.

Most teams ball carriers always target the fly-half. Nothing changes there. Don't recall Ford costing us many games because of his defence

Farrell never gets ripped on about his defence, his tackling technique isn't exactly flawless.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Surprised tickets are still available on ticketmaster. Can't make it myself, but if anyone else is looking, worth checking out. Some 3-4 seats together available, but going for £118 per ticket, plus a I am sure a sizeable booking fee.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

https://twitter.com/springboks/status/1057995978115047425?s=21

Boks team announced.

 

[TRF_heineken]

South Africa

15 Damian Willemse, 14 S'bu Nkosi, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Aphiwe Dyantyi, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Ivan van Zyl, 8 Warren Whiteley, 7 Duane Vermeulen, 6 Siya Kolisi, 5 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Steven Kitshoff

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Thomas du Toit, 18 Wilco Louw, 19 RG Snyman, 20 Lood de Jager, 21 Embrose Papier, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 André Esterhuizen.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Funny innit? Few who wheel out Faf's tackle on Hughes to prove a point counter balance with this.

But I don't think they are equivalent.

Some rugby players are small, and you have to accept that sometimes that will count against them, as happened with Ford. If they bring other positives in return then you accept the cost of doing business.

On the other hand, if you are a big guy like Hughes, picked to play as a power player in a position which requires power, and you get knocked backwards by a little squirt half your size then you deserve to be criticised

Farrell never gets ripped on about his defence, his tackling technique isn't exactly flawless.

Agreed, he's clearly a better defender than Ford but he's far from flawless. I wish I was less cynical, but I honestly do believe there is a hype machine around Farrell that exaggerates his strengths and glosses over his flaws, and I think it stems from the English media wanting to stay the right side of his Dad when he was a powerful figure in the England camp.

 

[SomeOke]

No surprises very similar team to what's been speculated, I really don't rate van Zyl but it's fine, the team is decent.
I suspect we will get some political backlash for the team though, quota targets are slipping.

 

[unrated]

I have a bad feeling about Duane Vermeulen at 7.
The only prob i have with the squad is Frans at 3, would have rather gone for Wilco, or TdT.

Ivan van Zyl at 9 doesnt fill me with confidence, would have chosen Papier instead but at least Pollard and Ivan will know each other very well, which kind of negates the loss of continuity with Faf.

Our bench is not bad at all, looking forward to see how the game changes when we bring on Wilco, TdT, Snyman, and Esterhuizen in the second half.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I have a bad feeling about Duane Vermeulen at 7.
The only prob i have with the squad is Frans at 3, would have rather gone for Wilco, or TdT.

Ivan van Zyl at 9 doesnt fill me with confidence, would have chosen Papier instead but at least Pollard and Ivan will know each other very well, which kind of negates the loss of continuity with Faf.

Our bench is not bad at all, looking forward to see how the game changes when we bring on Wilco, TdT, Snyman, and Esterhuizen in the second half.

Pollard should know Papier just as well as Ivan, they are both Bulls Scrumhalves... But yeah, I get your point. I think Ivan got the nod because he's a bit better with kicking than papier.

TdT has been selected as a loosehead for the tour, so I doubt we'd see him at tighthead at all in the next 4 games. Vincent Koch is our other TH.

3 Fly Halves in the 23... More than enough cover for kicking duties.

Hope the weather isn't going to much of an issue...

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Thor at Blindside.

South Africa

15 Damian Willemse, 14 S'bu Nkosi, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Aphiwe Dyantyi, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Ivan van Zyl, 8 Warren Whiteley, 7 Duane Vermeulen, 6 Siya Kolisi, 5 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Steven Kitshoff

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Thomas du Toit, 18 Wilco Louw, 19 RG Snyman, 20 Lood de Jager, 21 Embrose Papier, 22 Elton Jantjies, 23 André Esterhuizen.

So by my count that's 8 (counting DDA) of the 23 who are black or 35%. Short of the 45% for the quota target. Of course it's a farce to set such a target.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Thor at Blindside.


So by my count that's 8 (counting DDA) of the 23 who are black or 35%. Short of the 45% for the quota target. Of course it's a farce to set such a target.

Yes, but Rassie doesn't have to reach the quota mark every game... it's just that he should reach an overall target close to 50% by the time we go to the World Cup. So there will be a few games where more than 50% of players will be of colour...

 

[unrated]

Pollard should know Papier just as well as Ivan, they are both Bulls Scrumhalves... But yeah, I get your point. I think Ivan got the nod because he's a bit better with kicking than papier.

Yea i know, and thats actually also nice, but yea was just thinking that he has played more and for much longer with Ivan.

TdT has been selected as a loosehead for the tour

Who said that? i dont see why they cant use him for both in the tour.

 

[unrated]

Thor at Blindside.


So by my count that's 8 (counting DDA) of the 23 who are black or 35%. Short of the 45% for the quota target. Of course it's a farce to set such a target.

Only four are black Africans. Our government are not shy to say exactly that, they want more coloured representation but they have also said they want black Africans specifically in the squad.
The reasoning for this is that the coloured ( mixed race) community of South Africa numbering close to 6 million actually loves rugby and they play it from young ages just like the Afrikaans people. If they didn't specify that a certain amount of players in the quota specifically has to be black African then the coaches would have picked much more coloured players simply on the basis that the playing pool for coloured players are much much much larger the the black player pool.

So our government will probably not be happy with this and i can already see our biggest labour union in SA crying foul tomorrow about this, calling for mass boycotts of the Springboks, by fans and sponsors. They never really get much achieved with these campaigns.

 

[Scotty]

Don't worry I'd be surprised if EJ remembered or at least with enough time to make it relevant. Be one of those stupid 2 mins to substitutes.

Same as mercer then.