2018 NatWest Six Nations: Round 1 - France v Ireland

[munstermuffin]

It's a bit ******* and infuriating in the moment but it's better than any alternative. We either have it as it is prone to being taken advantage of or have 10 min delays to games for HIA's. Fines or docked log and world ranking points are the only thing that can be used as a deterrent.

This is exact issue. At moment we can just settle for least evil

 

[munstermuffin]

It's a bit ******* and infuriating in the moment but it's better than any alternative. We either have it as it is prone to being taken advantage of or have 10 min delays to games for HIA's. Fines or docked log and world ranking points are the only thing that can be used as a deterrent.

This is exact issue. At moment we can just settle for least evil

 

[Which Tyler]

It's a bit ******* and infuriating in the moment but it's better than any alternative. We either have it as it is prone to being taken advantage of or have 10 min delays to games for HIA's. Fines or docked log and world ranking points are the only thing that can be used as a deterrent.

Who do you dock points from? The independent doc? The ref?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Who do you dock points from? The independent doc? The ref?

Use the independent doc in a supervisory role where all he can do is deem a player unfit to play. If he can prove on a balance of probabilities a player has been told to fake an injury or an injury is being described as a head injury when it isnt throw the book at the team.

 

[munstermuffin]

Use the independent doc in a supervisory role where all he can do is deem a player unfit to play. If he can prove on a balance of probabilities a player has been told to fake an injury or an injury is being described as a head injury when it isnt throw the book at the team.

But then you have other side of if a player wants to stay on and independent doc wants him off. Like take 1st half yesterday. It was doc on line who ordered him off

 

[Which Tyler]

Use the independent doc in a supervisory role where all he can do is deem a player unfit to play. If he can prove on a balance of probabilities a player has been told to fake an injury or an injury is being described as a head injury when it isnt throw the book at the team.

That... Just makes no sense whatsoever... at all... Literally none.

You are actively advocating a situation that increases danger, solves zero issues, and increases abuse

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

That... Just makes no sense whatsoever... at all... Literally none.

Player goes for a HIA, let the team doc or ref order it, independent doc observes the HIA, if the player is clearly concussed and the team doc wants him on let the independent doc put a stop to it.

Equally if a player who injured his ankle is being taken off for a HIA the independent doc can take action.

Use the position more as a medical expert/witness than an on field doctor.

It would require at least two independent doctors though.

 

[Which Tyler]

What problem are you solving? And how are you solving it?
It still makes no sense, you're literally paying a doctor to stand in the corner and be quiet? What benefit is there from having him there?

 

[munstermuffin]

Player goes for a HIA, let the team doc or ref order it, independent doc observes the HIA, if the player is clearly concussed and the team doc wants him on let the independent doc put a stop to it.

Equally if a player who injured his ankle is being taken off for a HIA the independent doc can take action.

Use the position more as a medical expert/witness than an on field doctor.

It would require at least two independent doctors though.

But in the case of yesterday that wouldn't solve either issue.
Like if France wanted Machenaud back on yesterday based on your rulings the system would be easily manipulated. Teams would not be afraid of sanctions like fines if it meant result is achieved

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

What problem are you solving? And how are you solving it?
It still makes no sense, you're literally paying a doctor to stand in the corner and be quiet? What benefit is there from having him there?

The issues at hand are medical teams bending the rules and being negligent. If you have a "doctor referee" you can punish both and protect players in real time like they already do. If, however, the doctor doesn't make an in game and real time decision he/she wouldn't be bound to it like yesterday and it'd be easier to spot cheating by observing what goes on in the medical room. I don't think teams will avoid HIA's because they know they're liable for playing a concussed player, look at Cudmore v ASM, if they do the doctor can still sit them for the game if he feels the need and there's also that but of separation from the decision to allow arbitration of the rules.

 

[munstermuffin]

The issues at hand are medical teams bending the rules and being negligent. If you have a "doctor referee" you can punish both and protect players in real time like they already do. If, however, the doctor doesn't make an in game and real time decision he/she wouldn't be bound to it like yesterday and it'd be easier to spot cheating by observing what goes on in the medical room. I don't think teams will avoid HIA's because they know they're liable for playing a concussed player, look at Cudmore v ASM, if they do the doctor can still sit them for the game if he feels the need and there's also that but of separation from the decision to allow arbitration of the rules.

But what about opposite side like yesterday re Machenaud case?
As the other side is already covered. As it currently is sides can't be negligent but can use it to get lads back etc

 

[Which Tyler]

I... Don't understand.
I just don't know what you're proposing, or why your proposing it.

I can see that you don't want the independent Doc puling players off the pitch for HIAs, and I do know, and can prove with endless examples, that that results in players being left on the pitch when they shouldn't.
I guess that you think the doc pulling players off the pitch is a bad thing, but why? How does asking the bias doc instead of the unbiased one make the process less biased?
Sorry, maybe I'm drunk (I kinda am), maybe I'm distracted (after all, I'm trying to watch rugby), maybe I'm tired (I'm shattered). But I just don't get what you're trying to do here.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'm just rambling here and saying what I think makes sense, I'd have to do a lot more reading to build on this little thought or dump it. They're being investigated anyway so potentially what I'm suggesting already happens without the possible punishment of losing log and ranking points which unions would fear.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I... Don't understand.
I just don't know what you're proposing, or why your proposing it.

I can see that you don't want the independent Doc puling players off the pitch for HIAs, and I do know, and can prove with endless examples, that that results in players being left on the pitch when they shouldn't.
I guess that you think the doc pulling players off the pitch is a bad thing, but why? How does asking the bias doc instead of the unbiased one make the process less biased?
Sorry, maybe I'm drunk (I kinda am), maybe I'm distracted (after all, I'm trying to watch rugby), maybe I'm tired (I'm shattered). But I just don't get what you're trying to do here.

Yeah I'm all those things but drunk, also not very informed, it makes sense in my head but obviously I'm not explaining it well. I'd need to put more effort in to being more clear and concise so I'll leave it here.

 

[FrenchFan]

Who do you dock points from? The independent doc? The ref?

The FFR of course.

And Italy shud avoid the wooden spoon. And you can always replace France with Georgia next year for repeat offending.

It's all good (well except for the FFR).

 

[Amiga500]

IMO - the easiest solution for me is the straightforward one.

Change the laws so you can bring any substituted player back on (once), whether for tactical or injury reasons. Note - you cannot bring on a player from the bench twice.

Enough to remove the crap, make it straightforward, but prevent special teams as per Yankee football.

 

[munstermuffin]

IMO - the easiest solution for me is the straightforward one.

Change the laws so you can bring any substituted player back on (once), whether for tactical or injury reasons. Note - you cannot bring on a player from the bench twice.

Enough to remove the crap, make it straightforward, but prevent special teams as per Yankee football.

Well I think the best way is rolling sub myself. At a convention recently it would reduce injuries as well as make the game better. Say limit it to 14 subs or 15

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

#statattack James Ryan has yet to taste defeat in 15 games as a pro rugby player.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

#statattack James Ryan has yet to taste defeat in 15 games as a pro rugby player.

Following the BBCs lead with the Itoje comparisons
Maro went a stupidly long time without losing a game for club or country - 16months/31games

 

[Which Tyler]

Well I think the best way is rolling sub myself. At a convention recently it would reduce injuries as well as make the game better. Say limit it to 14 subs or 15

As a rugby fan, I hate the idea. As a health professional, I have to like it