2018 NatWest Six Nations: Round 1 - France v Ireland

[FrenchFan]

I'm not going to change one word from my previous posts after the game about the FFR charade.

If anything it's going to get worse for the union with a ridicule June tour to NZ. Laporte said he wants the Top 14 coaches to help Brunel on a freelance basis. The man is CRACKED. I can hear the peels of laughter from Toulouse to Lyon. FFR will be told 14 times where to go.

Stade Toulousain are raging at the loss of our play-maker Antoine Dupont who was having a fabulous season for us. And what about Matthieu Jalibert 19 yowho was tossed at the deep end and who is now out for 3 mths when he should have been with the U20.

The one thing I don't get about the game is the Irish performance. Ireland ranked 3rd are contenders for next year's RWC. They went in to the game on the back of a great run in the AI. They are organised expertly coached settled etc. basically the exact opposite of the union shower parading as 'national team'. Ireland were going to run in tries all evening and put a big score etc.

They didn't look once like scoring a try. They ran into a wall with no plan B. France were solid in defense. But nothing more than what is expected with the calibre of defensive work in Top 14 and the emphasis on defense in the test game.

Ireland had a huge amount of possession. What did they do with it? They got turned over every time in crucial areas. All of this against a side ranked 10 cobbled together and coached by a mickey mouse staff that are the laughing stock around the country.

Full credit to Sexton for his drop goal in extra time.

 

[munstermuffin]

As a rugby fan, I hate the idea. As a health professional, I have to like it

Same as here. It makes sense though.

 

[munstermuffin]

As a rugby fan, I hate the idea. As a health professional, I have to like it

Same as here. It makes sense though.

Following the BBCs lead with the Itoje comparisons
Maro went a stupidly long time without losing a game for club or country - 16months/31games

Yes this was on tonight too. Ryan's stats are along of bits too. Not full games. Itoje had a lot more full games

 

[Hanley!]

Schmidt is obviously a great coach and has done big things for the Irish team, but the narrative around him can be bewildering at times. He gets credit for Ireland's successes, but he scarcely receives blame for their failures. Which is not only inconsistent, it discredits a very strong group of Irish players. One of the best we've ever had. It's not like Schmidt has turned a bunch of nobodies into contenders.

Under Schmidt, Ireland have beaten the All Blacks and won two Six Nations tournaments, so I don't want to diminish his accomplishments. But there's nothing wrong with taking him to task for how little our attack has progressed in the last four years. We're so blunt, and struggle to convert dominance into points. So even when we're playing well, it often feels like we're one mistake away from defeat. That almost happened this weekend.

Ireland were stronger in nearly every facet of play against France, and were dominant for 90% of the game. They still almost lost. That's not good. When they go behind in a game, they have a bad track record of clawing their way back. That's not good either. These are things that the coaching staff need to address, if we ever want to see a World Cup semi-final.

Also on a more selfish note, it would also make the games a lot more enjoyable to watch. I love watching all the provincial sides play, but it's been a while since an Ireland game has held my attention. I was bored to tears on Saturday.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I know they managed to grind out the win in the end but Ireland looked seriously poor, never looked like scoring a try. This was summed up in the last passage of play when in 40 phases the only time they really gained any meterage was Sexton's kick. I've seen a lot of praise for France's defence but it's pretty easy when all you have to deal is one up runners. If they want to beat England they will need to be able to score Tries as you know England have a few in them.

 

[Amiga500]

Well I think the best way is rolling sub myself. At a convention recently it would reduce injuries as well as make the game better. Say limit it to 14 subs or 15

Disagree with rolling.

You'll then end up with guys 25 stone plus who cannot play for more than 10 mins coming on and off.

 

[Amiga500]

The one thing I don't get about the game is the Irish performance. Ireland ranked 3rd are contenders for next year's RWC. They went in to the game on the back of a great run in the AI. They are organised expertly coached settled etc. basically the exact opposite of the union shower parading as 'national team'. Ireland were going to run in tries all evening and put a big score etc.

They didn't look once like scoring a try. They ran into a wall with no plan B. France were solid in defense. But nothing more than what is expected with the calibre of defensive work in Top 14 and the emphasis on defense in the test game.

Ireland had a huge amount of possession. What did they do with it? They got turned over every time in crucial areas. All of this against a side ranked 10 cobbled together and coached by a mickey mouse staff that are the laughing stock around the country.

Indeed.

It has been a concern of mine for some time. I don't mind keeping it tight, that's fine - but we are so blunt. France rushed with bias out-to-in and we simply didn't know what to do about it. Not the first time either. Even going back to before Schmidt's time its been a problem.

The last time an Irish team could probably work around a well organised rush defence might have been with the Dagger in charge.


Once we got into the 22 the plan seemed to quickly devolve into one man out. Which can be OK - if the run angle is varied and the man is hitting the ball flat out. 3/4 pace doesn't cut it.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I know they managed to grind out the win in the end but Ireland looked seriously poor, never looked like scoring a try. This was summed up in the last passage of play when in 40 phases the only time they really gained any meterage was Sexton's kick. I've seen a lot of praise for France's defence but it's pretty easy when all you have to deal is one up runners. If they want to beat England they will need to be able to score Tries as you know England have a few in them.

They had none in them 11 months ago.

I think there's huge overreacting going on after that result, people have already forgotten what we did in Autumn in better condition because we didn't play that well while beating France in Paris. Right now the only worries are the dysfunctional midfield and the brainfart leading to the Thomas try. Fortunately we have a 9 and 10 who realised that playing out the backs wasn't going to work when 13 and 11 were turning the ball over for fun and 12 won't create anything himself so we were restricted to one off runners, which would have worked with a semi competent ref throughout the game and did work when it mattered

 

[MikeTheNative]

Yes but it's at Twickenham and before Saturday, Ireland's last away win in the 6 nations (that wasn't Italy) was in 2015 against Scotland.

 

[big ginger 8]

Think people are really underplaying a number of things that impacted the attack. The conditions were terrible, seriously how often do you see more intricate play when it's ******* rain, especially at international level? The refereeing of the offside line was also very poor, there were time where we were trying to do moves but we couldn't get them started because the French defence was in our face by the time the second pass was about to take place.
With a new coaching staff and combinations there was also no tape on this France side. We had not real idea about what type of defence they would employ and where they would be weak. In international rugby where the margins are so small, this is very important.
Finally the French aren't getting enough credit for playing a very organised and committed game in defence with a lot of pride at home.

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-41-phase-ireland-sexton-drop-goal-3832894-Feb2018/

 

[munstermuffin]

Disagree with rolling.

You'll then end up with guys 25 stone plus who cannot play for more than 10 mins coming on and off.

But that is why you cap it at say 10 or 14 or whatever

 

[munstermuffin]

Think people are really underplaying a number of things that impacted the attack. The conditions were terrible, seriously how often do you see more intricate play when it's ******* rain, especially at international level? The refereeing of the offside line was also very poor, there were time where we were trying to do moves but we couldn't get them started because the French defence was in our face by the time the second pass was about to take place.
With a new coaching staff and combinations there was also no tape on this France side. We had not real idea about what type of defence they would employ and where they would be weak. In international rugby where the margins are so small, this is very important.
Finally the French aren't getting enough credit for playing a very organised and committed game in defence with a lot of pride at home.

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-41-phase-ireland-sexton-drop-goal-3832894-Feb2018/

To be fair I think people are factoring in all then but not just basing it on yesterday.
Like we aren't a flashy team. We are a set functioned team who go through phases and keep scoreboard ticking. And get the result.

We aren't like an England or New Zealand who can just all of a sudden switch a bit of difference in style mid game. But we are consistent.

 

[Which Tyler]

But that is why you cap it at say 10 or 14 or whatever

Yup, either cap it, or say that once a player has returned to the field, they stay there (or come off with the team down to 14). Or both, of course.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yes but it's at Twickenham and before Saturday, Ireland's last away win in the 6 nations (that wasn't Italy) was in 2015 against Scotland.

I don't see how that means England will run in tries and we won't though. England aren't really a better try scoring team than Ireland either. In the last 12 months the teams have played four of the same fixtures, Argentina at home where Ireland scored three tries and England two, France at home where both sides scored one, Wales away England 2 and Ireland none, Italy away Ireland 9 and England 7 and the head to head was 1-0 Ireland. Either both the 2nd and 3rd best sides in the world have a try scoring problem or neither do, I'm guessing it's the latter!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

To be fair I think people are factoring in all then but not just basing it on yesterday.
Like we aren't a flashy team. We are a set functioned team who go through phases and keep scoreboard ticking. And get the result.

We aren't like an England or New Zealand who can just all of a sudden switch a bit of difference in style mid game. But we are consistent.

I don't think that any England fan would tell you they can do that!

 

[bushytop]

Heard something funny on one of the podcasts reviewing round 1... now I'm probably gonna cop some flak but I'm hoping my Irish cousins will simply see the funny side of this and not get their jimmies rustled too badly:

'Ireland are probably the best team in the world... until they play a game!'

Now having read these (& other forums about rugby) over the years, this literally caused me to lol.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think that any England fan would tell you they can do that!

I've seen us go from good to **** at the flip of a coin, so you take that back.

 

[munstermuffin]

I don't think that any England fan would tell you they can do that!

Well in better terms they can be more lethal. We are more efficient.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Van der Flier is out for the season, that's SOB, Heaslip, Ruddock and VDF out for Leinster alone, they're probably the four players in a Ster 23 right now add in TO'D and you have a wee bit of a crises! Nothing we can't handle yet.

Two season ending knee injuries and one tournament ending knee injury says a wee bit about the bad conditions too.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Van der Flier is out for the season, that's SOB, Heaslip, Ruddock and VDF out for Leinster alone, they're probably the four players in a Ster 23 right now add in TO'D and you have a wee bit of a crises! Nothing we can't handle yet.

In a roundabout way, it could be great news for James Ryan. Scott Fardy may be called into action in the backrow more often freeing up a starting spot for Ryan.

Won't disagree at all with those who say Ireland are boring to watch. They are. I much prefer the style Leinster play with and believe a happy medium can be found. Provincial coaching is a lot better today than it was in 2014 and 2015 so it's reasonable to expect better skill levels and a more open game plan from the national team.