[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 5: Ireland vs England (18/03/2017)

[Leonormous Boozer]

To be fair I think alot of criticism on Ueaslip is more he's 33 now and we have younger options. I agree he is a superb athlete but think we do need to try build without him starting for year due to his age especially when there us options.
Like its 50/50 when you ask who people would rate better between him and Stander. In my eyes when it's that close Stander should be main starter on age alone. But that doesn't mean Heaslip is done. There will be games where you need the 8 to carry out wider and thatbis where Heaslip carries more.

I don't think age is a factor with a guy contracted until 2019. Snowballing on your last point however, I would like to see Schmidt have to starting backrows depending on the opposition, what we had on Saturday suited a game against opposition not playing a strong jackler, in a game against a side like Wales where they had two Stander and Heaslip should be at 6 and 8 with Jordi Murphy (or VdF but his lineout is weaker) starting at 7. The backrow that beat England would struggle against a strong unit at the breakdown, bringing Murphy and Heaslip who are both better than POM and SOB there will be needed at times.

 

[munstermuffin]

I don't think age is a factor with a guy contracted until 2019. Snowballing on your last point however, I would like to see Schmidt have to starting backrows depending on the opposition, what we had on Saturday suited a game against opposition not playing a strong jackler, in a game against a side like Wales where they had two Stander and Heaslip should be at 6 and 8 with Jordi Murphy (or VdF but his lineout is weaker) starting at 7. The backrow that beat England would struggle against a strong unit at the breakdown, bringing Murphy and Heaslip who are both better than POM and SOB there will be needed at times.

But thats it Heaslip will be 35 and 10months or so at RWC. If you bank on him being there it may be a gamble. Not saying it's impossible or he won't more you can't bank on any player at that age regardless of contract.

 

[The Jones Boy]

For all the chippy detractors out there. You can talk to English supporters about "failing" when you've won 18 on the spin. Until then, quietness.

18 on the spin while hiding from the no.1, ducking a fight with the champ, this is like a boxer beating all sorts of journeymen and tin cans to build a rep and then when he's about to get a ***le shot, he takes on a tougher opponent and gets knocked out.
You can crow when you've beaten the best.
Ireland have more right to crow than England.

 

[McTallshort]

18 on the spin while hiding from the no.1, ducking a fight with the champ, this is like a boxer beating all sorts of journeymen and tin cans to build a rep and then when he's about to get a ***le shot, he takes on a tougher opponent and gets knocked out.
You can crow when you've beaten the best.
Ireland have more right to crow than England.

Did NZ play England on their 18 match run?

 

[Makos]

Did NZ play England on their 18 match run?

No, but you guys were ranked 6th or something and irrelevant then.

 

[McTallshort]

No, but you guys were ranked 6th or something and irrelevant then.

Before you lost to Ireland we were ranked 2nd...

 

[Makos]

Before you lost to Ireland we were ranked 2nd...

Just having you on. It'll be a good match when it comes around. Pity there can't be a test series, because we all know how you guys act in the event of a one off

 

[mosfeldt]

It will be a good match for sure, though I didn't really understand why people in the media and RFU were calling for a "showdown" between the 2 teams ASAP. England are very good but IMO still a good bit off the ABs. Saturday's match only proves that. Though of course I was secretly loving it, it was great seeing so many England fans on the Guardian talking about back-to-back slams and a showdown with NZ. I knew from experiencing the Irish hype train that that bubble would be burst, and I was full of confidence going into the Ireland-England match.

I'm just looking forward to somebody beating NZ at home again. 2009 was the last time. If the Lions could get even one win I'd be happy.

 

[Makos]

It will be a good match for sure, though I didn't really understand why people in the media and RFU were calling for a "showdown" between the 2 teams ASAP. England are very good but IMO still a good bit off the ABs. Saturday's match only proves that. Though of course I was secretly loving it, it was great seeing so many England fans on the Guardian talking about back-to-back slams and a showdown with NZ. I knew from experiencing the Irish hype train that that bubble would be burst, and I was full of confidence going into the Ireland-England match.

I'm just looking forward to somebody beating NZ at home again. 2009 was the last time. If the Lions could get even one win I'd be happy.

They definitely jumped the gun. The RU asking/demanding us for a match at the end of the year was really detrimental for the teams preparation for the Irish game IMO. You do not do that before a match.

No idea why they didn't just wait until after the Irish game, they really got ahead of themselves and got a little bit of egg on their face and lead their fans to yet another disappointment.

EDIT: Not meaning to put the boot in or anything, but I think the reason why they ended up declining our demands after the Irish game was because they perhaps felt they are still undercooked. If they had beaten the Irish, I think they would have accepted our proposal of getting more from the gate & gone into the game with more confidence. I think now there is some self-doubt there & some short comings have been exposed.

 

[McTallshort]

They definitely jumped the gun. The RU asking/demanding us for a match at the end of the year was really detrimental for the teams preparation for the Irish game IMO. You do not do that before a match.

No idea why they didn't just wait until after the Irish game, they really got ahead of themselves and got a little bit of egg on their face and lead their fans to yet another disappointment.

EDIT: Not meaning to put the boot in or anything, but I think the reason why they ended up declining our demands after the Irish game was because they perhaps felt they are still undercooked. If they had beaten the Irish, I think they would have accepted our proposal of getting more from the gate & gone into the game with more confidence. I think now there is some self-doubt there & some short comings have been exposed.

Wow hold on. When did they demand anything? They simply said they would be open to talks about a possible match and it came after concerted pressure from the media and I am guessing sponsors too. Not sure what difference that made to the Ireland game, England have looked stale this 6 Nations and the game in Dublin was always going to be the toughest challenge even from an Inconsistent Irish side.

 

[Makos]

Wow hold on. When did they demand anything? They simply said they would be open to talks about a possible match and it came after concerted pressure from the media and I am guessing sponsors too. Not sure what difference that made to the Ireland game, England have looked stale this 6 Nations and the game in Dublin was always going to be the toughest challenge even from an Inconsistent Irish side.

So you're saying the media controls the RU's decision making.

 

[McTallshort]

So you're saying the media controls the RU's decision making.

Well yes, of course the media have a big influence, as they do in all sport and all sections of society.


If the demand for a certain game is very loud from the media and also Sponsors then the RFU cannot just ignore it. They have to at least look at the possibility of staging the game which they did. Really don't get what your problem is.

 

[Makos]

Well yes, of course the media have a big influence, as they do in all sport and all sections of society.


If the demand for a certain game is very loud from the media and also Sponsors then the RFU cannot just ignore it. They have to at least look at the possibility of staging the game which they did. Really don't get what your problem is.

Oh no, I agree.

I just think the timing of the request was poor and they jumped the gun.

It could have waited a week until the Irish match was done and dusted & I think the team would have benefited psychologically.

 

[The5thOfficial]

18 on the spin while hiding from the no.1, ducking a fight with the champ, this is like a boxer beating all sorts of journeymen and tin cans to build a rep and then when he's about to get a ***le shot, he takes on a tougher opponent and gets knocked out.
You can crow when you've beaten the best.
Ireland have more right to crow than England.

Pretty well said I reckon!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

18 on the spin while hiding from the no.1, ducking a fight with the champ, this is like a boxer beating all sorts of journeymen and tin cans to build a rep and then when he's about to get a ***le shot, he takes on a tougher opponent and gets knocked out.
You can crow when you've beaten the best.
Ireland have more right to crow than England.

New Zealand 'ducked' England in their 18 win streak - must have been scared of us.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Ah the old "if you haven't beaten NZ everything is meaningless" comment. Kiwi's really are so arrogant... Our winning streak included beating 5 teams that were ranked higher than us when the streak started and 4 against a side that were ranked 2nd...

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Ah the old "if you haven't beaten NZ everything is meaningless" comment. Kiwi's really are so arrogant... Our winning streak included beating 5 teams that were ranked higher than us when the streak started and 4 against a side that were ranked 2nd...

I agree, New Zealand have only ever beaten teams ranked lower than they are - that's not the sign of a great team!

 

[The5thOfficial]

Ah the old "if you haven't beaten NZ everything is meaningless" comment. Kiwi's really are so arrogant...

LOL coming from a person of English heritage this really is pot, kettle and black territory surely?

 

[McTallshort]

LOL coming from a person of English heritage this really is pot, kettle and black territory surely?

Why is it?

 

[The5thOfficial]

Why is it?

Which bit didn't you get? I was referring to the bit where the english man called a kiwi arrogant!