[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 4: England vs Scotland (12/03/2017)

[Midlander]

Haley

 

[welshoptimist]

Which one? Ha. To me they are quite different players, Itoje doesn't seem to do the hard carries they do but probably competes more for the ball at the breakdown. Lineout competition will be interesting between them certainly.

I meant jonny XD he is a machine lately, as for the back line comments, its easy to look like an amazing backline with front foot ball, Scotland have been playing beautiful rugby even on the back foot, i cant think of a player i from the English side i would put in the Scottish back line other than daly ,

 

[Scotty]

Haley

Why? Im not saying your wrong but curious why not watson and keep nowell and daly or other options

 

[welshoptimist]

Johnny Grey and I disagree, In the France game alone Itoje made 12m from carries, almost as much as Johnny Grey has managed over 3 games and I don't think you can say the English pack were exactly on the front foot that game. In fact you will struggle to find forwards with worse carrying stats than grey except in the front row... When I can be bothered I might make a spreadsheet to show this.

true but he makes an incredible amount of tackles, and he doesn't miss them either, and in all fairness the majority of his carries require multiple tacklers to bring him down , also he is captain at Glasgow i believe?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Johnny Grey and I disagree, In the France game alone Itoje made 12m from carries, almost as much as Johnny Grey has managed over 3 games and I don't think you can say the English pack were exactly on the front foot that game. In fact you will struggle to find forwards with worse carrying stats than grey except in the front row... When I can be bothered I might make a spreadsheet to show this.

Please don't.

That's a serious bench we've got.

Brown's race is nearly run. My concern is a lack of a clear successor. I'm sure Eddie has a plan, just wish he'd share it!

 

[ncurd]

My concern is a lack of a clear successor. I'm sure Eddie has a plan, just wish he'd share it!

This is my concern I don't why Brown is getting a full 80mins when we actually need to start blooding a new successor I don't know anyone who thinks he'll still be around in 2.5 years. I can only assume EJ think Brown will go with the Lions and he'll start in Argentina.

 

[Which Tyler]

I agree brown needs to go, but maybe that should be against Argentina later in the year. The prob with getting rid of brown now is he is solid and proven, never passes and needs to go but right now solid under highballs and with hoggs attack we need solid player back there. Players that play FB:
Watson
Daly
Nowell
Haley
Jason woodward?

Remind me - when's the last time Daly or Nowell played FB
A] at all
B] starting more than 3 matches there (AKA, injury crisis)

 

[Scotty]

Remind me - when's the last time Daly or Nowell played FB
A] at all
B] starting more than 3 matches there (AKA, injury crisis)

Theyve played it but you are right not for a lenth of time, people do call to try daly there but tbh was just putting more names in the hat so to speak.

So..
Watson
Haley
Woodward.

 

[Which Tyler]

Theyve played it but you are right not for a lenth of time, people do call to try daly there but tbh was just putting more names in the hat so to speak.

So..
Watson
Haley
Woodward.

Sorry, it's just one of my bugbears; neither has played there in the last 3 years, and neither lpayed there for very long (enough to be considered to have the instincts that just need re-awakening); whilst the likes of Watson often gets ignored as a FB as he doesn't play there for England, so people assume that Daly/Nowell must be more accustomed to the position. It happens a surprising amount on these boards.


Either way - Watson should start getting game-time at FB for England; if switching from wing initially.
IMO Brown isn't a liability, but he's always been a little compromised given his distribution (and pace to a degree); a compromise that was worth making when his defence and personal threat were on top form a few yeasrs ago (not to mention a lack of alternatives); and is still worth making given the lack of experienced alternatives - both those guys aren't going to become experienced whlist Brown has the shirt anyway. I fear that the Brown compromise won't still be worth it come 2019; so we need to get FB caps into the likes of Watson. Haley and Woodward need more time at club level for me to pass a proper opinion on them - I've never been a fan of capping players before they've had a chance to suffer Second Season Syndrome; and either overcome it, or side-step it. It's just so much easier to look good when no-one's done any video analysis on you, or worked out strategies to counter your threats and exploit your weaknesses - looking international quality against teams who know what's coming is the time to be tested at international level.

 

[welshoptimist]

Sorry, it's just one of my bugbears; neither has played there in the last 3 years, and neither lpayed there for very long (enough to be considered to have the instincts that just need re-awakening); whilst the likes of Watson often gets ignored as a FB as he doesn't play there for England, so people assume that Daly/Nowell must be more accustomed to the position. It happens a surprising amount on these boards.

surley there has to be a young English talented full back somewhere in the Aviva?

 

[Scotty]

Sorry, it's just one of my bugbears; neither has played there in the last 3 years, and neither lpayed there for very long (enough to be considered to have the instincts that just need re-awakening); whilst the likes of Watson often gets ignored as a FB as he doesn't play there for England, so people assume that Daly/Nowell must be more accustomed to the position. It happens a surprising amount on these boards.

Yeh totally understand, daly has potential and i think may be good if he played it for club but with wasps talent no chance. So watson doesnt play much for bath no more because of homer which is a shame because he would be my choice. Nowel watson daly would be strong but daly isnt a winger by trade he's a OC. So nowell haley watson but that would put daly benched as cover for 11 13 14 15 and 12 in emergancy. So what do you think? Or anyone else?

 

[Which Tyler]

Which parts of young, English, talented, and full back don't apply to Watson and Haley? Even Woodward is Englishish

 

[ratsapprentice]

Either way - Watson should start getting game-time at FB for England; if switching from wing initially.
IMO Brown isn't a liability, but he's always been a little compromised given his distribution (and pace to a degree); a compromise that was worth making when his defence and personal threat were on top form a few yeasrs ago (not to mention a lack of alternatives); and is still worth making given the lack of experienced alternatives - both those guys aren't going to become experienced whlist Brown has the shirt anyway. I fear that the Brown compromise won't still be worth it come 2019; so we need to get FB caps into the likes of Watson. Haley and Woodward need more time at club level for me to pass a proper opinion on them - I've never been a fan of capping players before they've had a chance to suffer Second Season Syndrome; and either overcome it, or side-step it. It's just so much easier to look good when no-one's done any video analysis on you, or worked out strategies to counter your threats and exploit your weaknesses - looking international quality against teams who know what's coming is the time to be tested at international level.

Good summation, although in fairness to Woodward (aka Josh Hartnett), he was the Rebels best player for a good couple of years, and was very good for the Cane's last season.

 

[Midlander]

Why? Im not saying your wrong but curious why not watson and keep nowell and daly or other options

Just feel he is the natural FB.For me Daly is Centre even though Isee him playing at FB more and more for Wasps ( with the news today i:e Beale). I see Nowell an out and out Winger. I suppose Watson is man now next in line but again I see him more as a winger. Just the way I see it.

But then again Eddie seems to think way differently to me on most things........ maybe that's why he is England coach

 

[Midlander]

Which parts of young, English, talented, and full back don't apply to Watson and Haley? Even Woodward is Englishish

True true

 

[martinspoonboy1]

Can't see Daly at FB as long as Le Roux is at Wasps. For me there's 2 candidates for the near future. Watson and Haley. That's pretty much it. Reckon Eddie will stick with Brown for atleast the summer (if he doesn't make the Lions) and maybe even the Autumn unless form dramatically drops (further) or he gets injured. I think he sees his positives - solid on the most part, aggressive and desperate to win, outweighing his loss of pace. Agreed that Watson and Haley are going to quickly become better options but Brown hasn't done much wrong, other than the missed tackle vs Italy, a sliced kick and carrying back into contact slowly. He's clearly been coached to try and beat the first defender as opposed to shipping it out which I don't have an issue you with per se. But with his pace slowing, the metres made before this contact has reduced dramatically over the past 18 months (probably about 3-5 less per fielded kick) and this is a concern. Over a game that sure adds up! I reckon Watson could possibly make up to 5-8 metres more running the ball back before contact.

Brown for now but the times they are a changin'. Alex Goode isn't in Eddie's plans as he suffers from a similar lack of pace and Nowell doesn't have anywhere near the gas of Watson. Watson probably edges Haley for me.

 

[McTallshort]

So is Farrell injured?

 

[martinspoonboy1]

So is Farrell injured?

Eddie Jones said yes and that he is a doubt and then followed up by saying he'll be fine to play, but he's still doubt. Classic Eddie! It seems as though he'll be good to play. Eddie's just ****ing with the press.

 

[McTallshort]

And if he isn't? What will Eddie do

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Hopefully Slade gets a phone call. Teo would probably start. It wouldn't worry me greatly other than swapping out a concrete member of the squad - Slade is just as good a playmaker and we'd still have 3 kickers out there