[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 3: Ireland vs France (25/02/2017)

[Groundhog]

I'm certainly not on the Kearney bash brigade as at he best he was bloody good, but making half your tackles is unacceptable. If he didn't get the ball well that's not down to him, but his carries were and usually are ineffective. He rarely enters the line like a guy like Zebo could either, lacks pace and isn't capable of breaking a game although he's still wily. What he has is positioning, kicking and experience, but we need to use the Summer and next AIs to cycle him out.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'm certainly not on the Kearney bash brigade as at he best he was bloody good, but making half your tackles is unacceptable. If he didn't get the ball well that's not down to him, but his carries were and usually are ineffective. He rarely enters the line like a guy like Zebo could either, lacks pace and isn't capable of breaking a game although he's still wily. What he has is positioning, kicking and experience, but we need to use the Summer and next AIs to cycle him out.

Ineffective is unfair, he usually carries into traffic incredibly strongly to set up good phase play when nothing is on, when he does break the line he is still dangerous. His one on one tackling has always been his weakness but it rarely costs the team because of other things he brings in defence, France started to get a lot more out of there kicks when he left the game, he has the ability to cover the backfield on his own and can do it as well as most back threes, unless we bring Payne in he should stay where he is.

Earls - Trimble - Payne is the back three I'd like to see to be fair, Zebo can bench.

 

[munstermuffin]

Ineffective is unfair, he usually carries into traffic incredibly strongly to set up good phase play when nothing is on, when he does break the line he is still dangerous. His one on one tackling has always been his weakness but it rarely costs the team because of other things he brings in defence, France started to get a lot more out of there kicks when he left the game, he has the ability to cover the backfield on his own and can do it as well as most back threes, unless we bring Payne in he should stay where he is.

Earls - Trimble - Payne is the back three I'd like to see to be fair, Zebo can bench.

I've to agree as I've always said if fit Payne is best 15 by a mile. I'd disagree on Kearney contribution to defense as highly as you put it but well thats just opinions.
Vs England though I'd have that back 3

 

[mosfeldt]

I would give my left foot to see Payne at 15 for Wales. But let's be honest, if Rob is out and Payne is fit we will see Zebo at FB and Payne 13. Not that there would be anything wrong with that either, Payne as we all know is excellent defensively and I would be on board for his 13 defensive capabilities over Ringrose's offensive preferences. But I would love to see him play at 15 again, he seemed totally in his element in S. Africa (as he does in Ulster).

Also, how about Payne on the bench covering centre and FB? That would be interesting, and probably reasonable given his recent injury.

 

[munstermuffin]

I would give my left foot to see Payne at 15 for Wales. But let's be honest, if Rob is out and Payne is fit we will see Zebo at FB and Payne 13. Not that there would be anything wrong with that either, Payne as we all know is excellent defensively and I would be on board for his 13 defensive capabilities over Ringrose's offensive preferences. But I would love to see him play at 15 again, he seemed totally in his element in S. Africa (as he does in Ulster).

Also, how about Payne on the bench covering centre and FB? That would be interesting, and probably reasonable given his recent injury.

Not necessarily. Payne was 15 in SA in summer and did superb. Ringrose was praised which means Schmidt will retain him. Payne may be on bench if fitness is not up to speed

 

[mosfeldt]

I hope you're right. Ringrose has definitely warranted his spot IMO. I'm just used to Joe using the tried-and-tested selections, though at this point as we say RR is quite reliable. Will be an interesting call anyways.

 

[Groundhog]

I think with Ringrose as an ever improving 13 option, we would be using our resources most wisely by putting the country's best 15 (Payne) at his best position when Ringrose while no where near the defender Payne is, can catch up quickly and has a defensive rock he understands well inside him, as well as a man to run the show from 15.
I'm not so sure that with a fully fit Payne/injured Kearney in the mix we see Ringrose hit the bench as Schmidt likes consistency and there's no need to shuffle around too many players.
For my money I'd also be happy to see Trimble replace Zebo for the time being as things stand. He's not defending well enough. I think he definitely had a knock but his decision making on the wing is a bit off. As we're on back three players, I'd also like to mention how well Earls defended against France too. He was like a terrier in his energy in defence. People like to toss out the defensive frailty aspect but it's a big crock at this stage when he's in his best position.

 

[big ginger 8]

Mark Ella.

Thanks

Kearney apparently had the ball 8 times, ran 16m, never passed, never kicked, made three tackles and missed three tackles........ I mean we played relatively tight, and we're having a go at Zebo fairly, but that's wildly uninspiring. I'd love Payne to be international fit at the moment.

It was rather noticeable that France didn't kick infield while Kearney was on the pitch, apart from possibly Spedding's boomer they looked for touch on every kick. Certainly not his best game but he clearly has a tangible effect on the game. His other games this tournament have also been fairly good.

Think Payne if comes back, which will be a big ask, it'll be likely at 13. Not that I want to drop Ringrose. I think the criticism of him found on this thread and other ones is way overblown and probably confirmation bias. He made 6 tackles and missed two so not the greatest game ever defensively but his other games have been far better in that regard and from some of the comments you'd think he missed a lot more. He was also for my money the most threatening back outside of the halfbacks, especially in the first half where he had a number of halfbreaks where he was very close to make a full on break. His work at the breakdown was also noticeable. Basically he's fulfilling his role very well, however, he simply doesn't have the organisational skills of Payne as of yet. Against England this will be vital. We play a very narrow defence under Farrell and they have a pack that will suck people in. Allied with two 10's and some pacy back three players I'm somewhat concerned about it.

 

[munstermuffin]

Always said though Earls is good defensively on wing. It's as a 13 he was bad. Agree Trimble and Earls should be there vs England definitely and Wales possibly too.

 

[Goodey]

I would give my left foot to see Payne at 15 for Wales.

He's got plans to move again?

 

[Groundhog]

Thanks




It was rather noticeable that France didn't kick infield while Kearney was on the pitch, apart from possibly Spedding's boomer they looked for touch on every kick. Certainly not his best game but he clearly has a tangible effect on the game. His other games this tournament have also been fairly good.

Think Payne if comes back, which will be a big ask, it'll be likely at 13. Not that I want to drop Ringrose. I think the criticism of him found on this thread and other ones is way overblown and probably confirmation bias. He made 6 tackles and missed two so not the greatest game ever defensively but his other games have been far better in that regard and from some of the comments you'd think he missed a lot more. He was also for my money the most threatening back outside of the halfbacks, especially in the first half where he had a number of halfbreaks where he was very close to make a full on break. His work at the breakdown was also noticeable. Basically he's fulfilling his role very well, however, he simply doesn't have the organisational skills of Payne as of yet. Against England this will be vital. We play a very narrow defence under Farrell and they have a pack that will suck people in. Allied with two 10's and some pacy back three players I'm somewhat concerned about it.

Did France not kick infield because that was their tactical preference to run the ball whenever possible and only kick when necessary, or because they were so respectful of Kearney's fielding skills? I suspect the former. Also the period when they did choose to kick infield was probably when they were at their most stagnant and absent of ideas or momentum. I'm not going to count just being there as a tick in Kearney's positive column. He had flashes of very good play against Scotland, but was poor on Saturday.
I agree with you regards Ringrose for the most part. They noted in some analysis that Ringrose often makes very good and correct reads in defence, but does often fall off tackles. Still he pressures the opposition well and will before long tear defences up. He's not a defensive organiser or leader like Payne yet which is pretty key, but to be expected as he's only being a starter for a handful of games.

 

[big ginger 8]

Did France not kick infield because that was their tactical preference to run the ball whenever possible and only kick when necessary, or because they were so respectful of Kearney's fielding skills? I suspect the former. Also the period when they did choose to kick infield was probably when they were at their most stagnant and absent of ideas or momentum. I'm not going to count just being there as a tick in Kearney's positive column. He had flashes of very good play against Scotland, but was poor on Saturday.
I agree with you regards Ringrose for the most part. They noted in some analysis that Ringrose often makes very good and correct reads in defence, but does often fall off tackles. Still he pressures the opposition well and will before long tear defences up. He's not a defensive organiser or leader like Payne yet which is pretty key, but to be expected as he's only being a starter for a handful of games.

They kept kicking infield despite our lineout and maul doing very well. I'd imagine Kearney did have something to do with it. He might not be a devestating counterattacker but he does setup attacks very well for us. I also think France were quite worried about the Garreyowen's that would have come their way(based on the few that happened this was very much justified), partially because of the weather and partially because of what our backthree can do in the air.

They also definitely did kick a decent bit clearing their lines.

 

[munstermuffin]

I think it's fair to say Kearney is a topic like marmite. Some will say he's great other will say he's not deserving. And there'll never be an agreement.

On injury side he will be fine for Wales by all accounts