[2016 RBS Six Nations] Round 3: England vs. Ireland (27/02/2016)

[Ragey Erasmus]

Yeah but you're forgetting Jospeh is actually a very good defender & I haven't seen him be run through by anyone let alone miss many tackles.

As good as Henshaw is I think we are overstating. What decent ball Ireland do get the majority will be kicked away by Sexton / Murray with the Irish backs putting pressure on our back three with their kick chase & line speed.

I hope Jones has really made a point about getting back to support our back 3 when that happens. I'm tired of seeing the ball kicked to our back 3 and half the opposition team getting there before any of our players decide to make the effort to get back onside.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Lol at the hate Ben Youngs gets on social media.

 

[spartan32]

There's lots of chat from the Irish about these wonderful backs and deadly centres. Having watched the last two games the Irish did nothing particularly clever in the backs, and with the Welsh they simply ran straight at them and got smashed about for 80 minutes. Yes Ford is week in D but EJ knows this and will no doubt have big lads in hand to plug the gap. Say what you like about Robshaw and Hask but they are more then capable of smashing any back put in front of them. And I would be as worries about Sexton if I were Irish. He may not shy away from contact but he always tackles high. Throw bully down his channel a few times and he won't be able to help himself and the chances of a knock become pretty good. I've seen nothing about Ireland so far that has me worried.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yeah but you're forgetting Jospeh is actually a very good defender & I haven't seen him be run through by anyone let alone miss many tackles.

As good as Henshaw is I think we are overstating. What decent ball Ireland do get the majority will be kicked away by Sexton / Murray with the Irish backs putting pressure on our back three with their kick chase & line speed.

I think England will win this game mainly due to home advantage
but I think you're being very dismissive/slightly ignorant of what Ireland can bring, nothing wrong with that I'm the same with England.

England will probably have a slightly superior pack, their second rows are a lot better than Ireland's but that's about it, I'd only take Cole and Vunipola from the rest of the England pack, there's parity in the front row and I think Ireland's back row edges it. England will want this game to be slow and structured, this is the first time since the All Blacks game in '13 that I see scrappiness favouring Ireland because of McCloskey's and Henshaw's explosiveness and guys like Earls and Sexton who are strong runners with the ball. The back there's are almost identical in how they're balanced, Earls and Watson are both guys who can't be given space but can be exposed, Nowell and Trimble are safe as houses and very smart in attack and neither Brown nor Kearney will let their sides down but are both lacking form with ball in hand, England probably edge this too though. I take Ireland's halfbacks 10 times out of 10, for all the criticism they've been getting of late it's a pairing that hasn't been outplayed in a competitive match in at least two years.

There's no clear winner in this game and no obvious place where either side will expose the other, possession should be quite even and I think Itoje's and Kruis' superior mibility will separate the sides come the end of 80 minutes. I retract my earlier statement of this game not going to be tight since seeing the sides, this could be the fixture of the tournament the way things are panning out.

- - - Updated - - -

The chat is because of us now having a 12 and 13 in the centre rather than a 13 and 12 and a 15 at 13 Spartan. We won't see Payne's awful lines on Saturday.

 

[profitius]

McCloskey has been one of or the players of the pro 12 this season and I think he has the most defenders beating in the champions cup this season. Its definitely an area Ireland can target because he makes a lot of meters in every game he plays because he has more strings to his bow than boshing. He will also open up space for Henshaw and its Henshaws best position (either 13 or 15) so expect him to have a good game also.


Thats looking at it from an Ireland point of view. I was impressed by England against Scotland (didn't see the Italy match) and Jones has certainly been ballsy and picked a backline with a real cutting edge.


Van Der Flier was in my preferred Ireland team before the tournament started. His is a traditional pain in the ass type openside. Although not massive, he is very fast and a good tackler.


Rob Kearney is very lucky to be selected. Offers nothing in attack these days. The Ireland bench is also poor, with very out of form players.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

McClosky has broken the most tackles in Europe (26).

Ford has missed the most tackles in Europe (20).

Might be a long day for Ford.

 

[spartan32]

The ford tackling issue is nothing new, and in fact most 10s aren't massive tacklers. You get the odd bigger lad but that's not the norm. Faz can tackle alright and I'm sure Hask will have been told to be on hand as well. Charging down his channel is predictable and as such easy to defend because there will be plenty of time to put measures in place, which I'm sure EJ will have done, and in any event the most likely chances to run that channel will be post scrum which Ireland have to win first, and this isn't a given as it stands. I think this may really come down to which team clicks first and in that regard England have the advantage as the guys have been playing together as is for a little (not much) longer.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Ford didn't have a issue with tackling until this season so to say nothing new about is incorrect.

 

[g6mcg]

Ford didn't have a issue with tackling until this season so to say nothing new about is incorrect.

Even last season he went backwards a lot! Seems to have been told to tackle higher this season, and is getting bumped off more as a consequence, but he was definitely targeted before this year.

 

[LukeFitzgerald]

Rob Kearney is very lucky to be selected. Offers nothing in attack these days. The Ireland bench is also poor, with very out of form players.

Who would you pick instead at fullback? Payne is injured, Henshaw has played at fullback only twice this season for Connacht and TOH has no experience under Schmidt and has conceded a lot of tries for Connacht at fullback. Zebo is a complete liability at fullback. Kearney was actually pretty decent in attack against France when he got his chances (1 terrible offload aside). He made 2 decent carries and set up Payne nicely with a good pass. He was given little chances, but did well enough. I'd still have Payne as my starting fb with McCloskey and Henshaw as the centre partnership.

What is so terrible about the bench?
Strauss is playing far better than Cronin.
I'd take an off form Healy (who actually played decently enough in his last 2 games) over Cronin.
Yeah selecting White is probably the wrong call.
Dillane is playing very well and is our only realistic 2nd rower left due to injury.
Ruddock has been in great form for the last 2-3 seasons.
Reddan has been fairly mixed this season but was very good against Cardiff last week.
Madigan shouldn't be on the bench but is a more reliable goal kicker than Jackson and is more versatile. I know the versatility card is a pretty poor reason to pick him but our team is getting badly hit with injuries so we need every option we can take. We don't want to be left with Peter O'Mahony on the wing against Italy in 2013 again.
Zebo is our only player who is capable of filling the 23 shirt as he's a decent winger and can do a job at fb in case of an emergency. Gilroy and Healy can only play on the wing so wouldn't be suitable options to take the 23 shirt.

 

[ncurd]

He's been targeted before but he's also managed to make tackle in the past that have been crucial. I wish I could say the same of this season.

 

[Peat]

Even last season he went backwards a lot! Seems to have been told to tackle higher this season, and is getting bumped off more as a consequence, but he was definitely targeted before this year.

That would be the size of it for me.

Ford is extremely unlikely to concede any tries directly or even that many line-breaks, because as said, everyone knows what to expect there and the back row and Farrell will be on hand to help out. I'd still expect a constant source of quick ball from that though which will create issues.

The bigger issue with Ford is that we'll probably end up seeing him field deep regularly (because we have so far) and if he's caught by the Irish chase, there is no way he's staying on his feet until help arrives.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

People acting like McCloskey is Manu.
It's a good job he's from Bangor cause he's gonna get banged out on Saturday.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

People acting like McCloskey is Manu.
It's a good job he's from Bangor cause he's gonna get banged out on Saturday.

Chat ****.

 

[profitius]

Who would you pick instead at fullback? Payne is injured, Henshaw has played at fullback only twice this season for Connacht and TOH has no experience under Schmidt and has conceded a lot of tries for Connacht at fullback. Zebo is a complete liability at fullback. Kearney was actually pretty decent in attack against France when he got his chances (1 terrible offload aside). He made 2 decent carries and set up Payne nicely with a good pass. He was given little chances, but did well enough. I'd still have Payne as my starting fb with McCloskey and Henshaw as the centre partnership.

What is so terrible about the bench?
Strauss is playing far better than Cronin.
I'd take an off form Healy (who actually played decently enough in his last 2 games) over Cronin.
Yeah selecting White is probably the wrong call.
Dillane is playing very well and is our only realistic 2nd rower left due to injury.
Ruddock has been in great form for the last 2-3 seasons.
Reddan has been fairly mixed this season but was very good against Cardiff last week.
Madigan shouldn't be on the bench but is a more reliable goal kicker than Jackson and is more versatile. I know the versatility card is a pretty poor reason to pick him but our team is getting badly hit with injuries so we need every option we can take. We don't want to be left with Peter O'Mahony on the wing against Italy in 2013 again.
Zebo is our only player who is capable of filling the 23 shirt as he's a decent winger and can do a job at fb in case of an emergency. Gilroy and Healy can only play on the wing so wouldn't be suitable options to take the 23 shirt.

Kearney just doesn't deserve his place. Let one of the younger lads have a go there. Henshaw has only played there twice this season but he would be a big step up from Kearney. Luke Marshall (who is in cracking form) could slot into 13.


Leinster fans have been calling for Reddan to be dropped all season. He is very old now but more importantly its been years since he was at his best. He is error prone and off form. Marmion deserves a shot as he is a better player now IMO.
Strauss is average. James Tracy has outplayed him all season for Leinster.
As for Madigan, I could understand having him on the bench against Wales and even France. However the f-up he made from the kick off was the final straw for me. Jackson has been in great form this season.

I've no issues with the others. Second row stocks are at an all time low at the moment so might as well give Dillane a go. Healy is Healy. Zebo can add some spark, though Gilroy is in better form. White is best of the rest at tighthead. Ruddock is solid option.

 

[Peat]

People acting like McCloskey is Manu.
It's a good job he's from Bangor cause he's gonna get banged out on Saturday.

I was going to reply then wasn't sure whether I was being wooshed.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Eng v Ire threads are always arrogance fests, this one is way too civil

 

[munstermuffin]

Who would you pick instead at fullback? Payne is injured, Henshaw has played at fullback only twice this season for Connacht and TOH has no experience under Schmidt and has conceded a lot of tries for Connacht at fullback. Zebo is a complete liability at fullback. Kearney was actually pretty decent in attack against France when he got his chances (1 terrible offload aside). He made 2 decent carries and set up Payne nicely with a good pass. He was given little chances, but did well enough. I'd still have Payne as my starting fb with McCloskey and Henshaw as the centre partnership.

What is so terrible about the bench?
Strauss is playing far better than Cronin.
I'd take an off form Healy (who actually played decently enough in his last 2 games) over Cronin.
Yeah selecting White is probably the wrong call.
Dillane is playing very well and is our only realistic 2nd rower left due to injury.
Ruddock has been in great form for the last 2-3 seasons.
Reddan has been fairly mixed this season but was very good against Cardiff last week.
Madigan shouldn't be on the bench but is a more reliable goal kicker than Jackson and is more versatile. I know the versatility card is a pretty poor reason to pick him but our team is getting badly hit with injuries so we need every option we can take. We don't want to be left with Peter O'Mahony on the wing against Italy in 2013 again.
Zebo is our only player who is capable of filling the 23 shirt as he's a decent winger and can do a job at fb in case of an emergency. Gilroy and Healy can only play on the wing so wouldn't be suitable options to take the 23 shirt.

Just on this believe it or not I agree Zebo is liability defensively but so is RK as French game showed. Only difference is Zebo offers a lot in attack but let's not kid ourselves both aren't anywhere near good enough at this time. And I'd disagree by saying only contribution he made vs France was tackling Trimble twice. Zebo should've started ahead simply as he offers more in attack but both are poor standard now.

Regards kicking and PJ I'd disagree. He's sorted it out and people say Madigan there for versatility but fact is any back 3 player gets injured Zebo comes on. If it's Henshaw Earls goes in 13 and Zebo on. If it's McCloskey it's Zebo on and all move in 1. Joe basically said that today. So again it'd be interesting to see what Madigan covering.

 

[munstermuffin]

Kearney just doesn't deserve his place. Let one of the younger lads have a go there. Henshaw has only played there twice this season but he would be a big step up from Kearney. Luke Marshall (who is in cracking form) could slot into 13.


Leinster fans have been calling for Reddan to be dropped all season. He is very old now but more importantly its been years since he was at his best. He is error prone and off form. Marmion deserves a shot as he is a better player now IMO.
Strauss is average. James Tracy has outplayed him all season for Leinster.
As for Madigan, I could understand having him on the bench against Wales and even France. However the f-up he made from the kick off was the final straw for me. Jackson has been in great form this season.

I've no issues with the others. Second row stocks are at an all time low at the moment so might as well give Dillane a go. Healy is Healy. Zebo can add some spark, though Gilroy is in better form. White is best of the rest at tighthead. Ruddock is solid option.

On end paragraph
Agree re Hooker but Tracy not tested enough at high level
Healy is Healy but lucky
White is only TH left
Dillane is right call
Ruddock can cover more than TOD
Reddan best of terrible drop after Murray
Madigan just awful call.
Zebo there as he can cover all back 3. Gilroy in better form and while he can play 15 too I suppose it counts against him he hasn't done it in camp lately(play 15).

 

[Groundhog]

Eng v Ire threads are always arrogance fests, this one is way too civil

Everyone is busy hating Wales mate!