[2016 RBS Six Nations] Round 2: Italy vs. England (14/02/2016)

[Colombia]

I think a lot of people out there want to see a raft of young talent rolled out and be given a chance to show what they can do, and that may well lead to some exciting rugby being played by England. But let me ask you this:
Would you rather England made sweeping changes, brought in all the young lads, played some pretty rugby but lost,
Or England play the experienced lads with cooler heads, played boring rugby, but grand slam?

The latter obviously, particularly when rankings points this year determine World Cup groups in 2019. Does anybody want to be in another group of death?

 

[LiRFCMatt]

opotunity

Firstly, that is the best spelling mistake I've seen on this forum, I absolutely love it.

I think a lot of people out there want to see a raft of young talent rolled out and be given a chance to show what they can do, and that may well lead to some exciting rugby being played by England. But let me ask you this:
Would you rather England made sweeping changes, brought in all the young lads, played some pretty rugby but lost,
Or England play the experienced lads with cooler heads, played boring rugby, but grand slam?

Now I know there will be those out there that says to two things are not mutually exclusive, but I would suggest too many young heads out on the field at once can have only one result, especially against The celts, and I for one would just like to see England winning games by hook or by crook, get back into the top 4 and start imposing ourselves on the world stage once more. With that kind of dominance comes a fear factor for other teams that provides the psychological edge that would give younger players more time and space to do their stuff and grow into the English unit.

I whole-heartedly believe we could play a XV with 0 caps between them and beat Italy. If we were to have subbed in Daly for JJ, Devoto for Ford (Faz to 10), Kvesic for Robshaw (Haskell to 6 or Itoje in for Haskell) then it really wouldn't upset the balance at all and it holds the shape that England will play when Slade is fit instead of this rubbish with 2 fly halves next to eachother, one of which is massively underperforming. I partially blame Lancaster that the likes of Daly, Kvesic and Itoje haven't got a few caps between them yet, but now is Jones's chance to right the wrongs of the previous regime. Get them playing!

 

[spartan32]

Firstly, that is the best spelling mistake I've seen on this forum, I absolutely love it.



I whole-heartedly believe we could play a XV with 0 caps between them and beat Italy. If we were to have subbed in Daly for JJ, Devoto for Ford (Faz to 10), Kvesic for Robshaw (Haskell to 6 or Itoje in for Haskell) then it really wouldn't upset the balance at all and it holds the shape that England will play when Slade is fit instead of this rubbish with 2 fly halves next to eachother, one of which is massively underperforming. I partially blame Lancaster that the likes of Daly, Kvesic and Itoje haven't got a few caps between them yet, but now is Jones's chance to right the wrongs of the previous regime. Get them playing!

Well I agree that even a scratch England team could beat Italy, but what does that teach us? Could a side that contains all those new lads turn over the Welsh, or the Irish? It's been only one game back. I agree Ford is struggling but I think he needs at least this game to show he is getting back to form. Haskell and Robshaw may not be the "fetchers" that everyone wants but they were rock solid in D (Hask making 22 tackles I believe). If Kvesic is good enough Jones will give him his chance. The only real problem for me is Faz at 12. It's just a disaster. Get Devoto in there as the only other choice. At least he's a bit of lump who can get some go forward ball. Then we can just keep our fingers crossed that Manu pulls himself together to gives us some brute force options against the Celts.
I hope he benches some of the youth and then gives them a solid 30 mins or so in the game to show what they can do. Oh and drops Goode like a bad habit. Seriously what is the point in him?

 

[johnmac99]

Goode covers full back and wings, and I'm not advocating it, but he started his career as a fly-half.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Since when?
I've never seen him play wing.
If anything he covers 15 and 10.

 

[johnmac99]

Since when?
I've never seen him play wing.
If anything he covers 15 and 10.

I didn't say he played Wing, but if a Winger got injured then Brown could play Wing and Goode could come on as Full Back, so effectively he covers both.
Saves having a Winger on the bench.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So he doesn't cover wing, gotya.

We've got three players with experience of playing fullback on the pitch, we don't need another on the bench, especially when that's all he can cover.

Should have Daly covering centre (and 15) or Roko covering wing.

 

[Every Time Ref]

So he doesn't cover wing, gotya.

We've got three players with experience of playing fullback on the pitch, we don't need another on the bench, especially when that's all he can cover.

Should have Daly covering centre (and 15) or Roko covering wing.

We also have two players whose first position is fly-half so don't need that covering either.

Yet in the entire 23 we have one centre.

 

[johnmac99]

So he doesn't cover wing, gotya.

We've got three players with experience of playing fullback on the pitch, we don't need another on the bench, especially when that's all he can cover.

Should have Daly covering centre (and 15) or Roko covering wing.

I see your point.
Looking at the squad, what would happen if Nowell got injured during game time if Goode wasn't on the bench? Could Roko cover him as well?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ay?
Roko is a wing - if Nowell got injured then Roko would go onto the wing.

Two injuries to outside backs would cause most teams to have to reshuffle significantly (unless you have a 10 who is as happy at 15)

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Ay?
Roko is a wing - if Nowell got injured then Roko would go onto the wing.

Two injuries to outside backs would cause most teams to have to reshuffle significantly (unless you have a 10 who is as happy at 15)

At Exeter certainly Nowell can cover 13, so that's 13, 15 and 11 and 14 (shifting Brown over- because that worked well against France in 2014...). The real issue would be an injury to Ford.

If that happens, the choice is Goode 10 Farrell 12, or Farrell 10 Goode 12.

Neither of which are very appealing...

 

[johnmac99]

Ay?
Roko is a wing - if Nowell got injured then Roko would go onto the wing.

Two injuries to outside backs would cause most teams to have to reshuffle significantly (unless you have a 10 who is as happy at 15)

The only reason I ask is because the two Wingers have different jobs and I haven't seen enough of Roko to know if he could cope, but then I suppose that's why he has been selected

- - - Updated - - -

At Exeter certainly Nowell can cover 13, so that's 13, 15 and 11 and 14 (shifting Brown over- because that worked well against France in 2014...). The real issue would be an injury to Ford.

If that happens, the choice is Goode 10 Farrell 12, or Farrell 10 Goode 12.

Neither of which are very appealing...

...or Farrell move to 10 and bring on Devoto at 12.

 

[spartan32]

So we all agree. There is no point to Goode.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

...or Farrell move to 10 and bring on Devoto at 12.

Bring on Devoto from where exactly? The subs bench being discussed had only two backs on it- Care and Goode.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Bring on Devoto from where exactly? The subs bench being discussed had only two backs on it- Care and Goode.

Jones magic.

 

[Colombia]

So we all agree. There is no point to Goode.

Depends, who is the best full-back after Brown? because Brown was not clever at the weekend, either with his running or kicking. Depending on whether or not he can improve, Goode may well be the better option. On the bench he seems as versatile as they come.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It definitely isn't Goode.
He's a proven failure at international level.
Foden, pennell, Tait, Haley
Any English 15 would be better

 

[johnmac99]

Bring on Devoto from where exactly? The subs bench being discussed had only two backs on it- Care and Goode.

No it didn't. Devoto was 23 against Scotland so was sat on the bench.

 

[spartan32]

Firstly Brown is streets ahead of Goode and although he didn't have his best game on Saturday it still wasn't bad by anyone's standard. And if he needs to come off Watson or Knowell can both cover 15 well enough and Roko comes off the bench to cover wing, a guy who's pretty destructive and not bad under the high ball himself. In fact the though of both Knowell and Roko on the pitch at the same time is quite appealing. Goode can only really play 15 and he's only ok at it. He's never going to cover 10!!. Hence why the question, what point does he serve? And I think the answer has to be.... None. So let's bin him off and give his bench seat to someone of value.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

No it didn't. Devoto was 23 against Scotland so was sat on the bench.

Might be muddled here, but I was referring to the bench named as reported by Sky for the game against Italy (this being the Italy vs England thread and all).